Right then…tired as hell and I can’t sleep. Typical. As are other things. So yes, on with million dollar questions.
First I want to ask a few: "Hey, grand revolutionaries? What's the plan? When is the sex biz ending? What are you going to do with the people in it? What if some of 'em don't like the New World Order? You got a time table or anything?"
Oh, and check this, because, you know, the world just loves the pornified women, right?
“Not tonight Honey, I have the Sex Pox”
Elsewhere, on Ginmar’s Journal, where she just can’t seem to resist bashing the hell outta me, Belle, Trinity, Piny and whomever else strikes her fancy at the moment, we have a comment from charazardo, speaking on the Feministe Porn thread, who asks:
“…I just also somehow got linked to that previous thread on Ren. This is horribly gossipy of me, but I would be interested in getting some info on her. Also, who are Piny and Anthony? And everyone else? I know it seems weird to be this interested in people's backgrounds, I just feel like a lot of things that were said seem suspect. For example the one that was claiming that giving up BDSM porn makes her derealized and depersonalized. I have some personal experience with mental illness and that just doesn't make much sense to me, but how can you argue with it? we aren't supposed to deny a woman's experience, after all, or apparently EVER criticize their choices.To me what I encountered on that board seemed more like liberalism as applied to feminist issues than feminism, and that's putting it kindly, really.
Also, I felt like I tried to adopt a moderate stance, really let a lot of things go, and allowed them to purposely misunderstand me about certain things, and it was STILL too difficult to even get a single point to be taken into consideration. Now I understand why Twisty is so unapologetically contemptuous of the fucking pedantic assholes and the pornsick.
Before I was actually willing to consider compromise on the porn issue, now I'm just going to stick with mmy gut feeling (and sense of reason too) and condemn it openly like I'd like to.
Oh, and didn't you love that one interjection by the girl who just CAN'T IMAGINE why anyone would think that ATM is a bit off color?
Agh! this is way too long already, but I could go on for days about how offensive I found that thread. Honestly, it really upset me deeply, as someone who, like most women, has suffered from the ill effects of porn.
Oh, one last thing, you gotta love how it degenerated into a "but what about teh disabled menz?" and that girl cited some example about how a group of women who was horrified by Real Dolls was shamed into submission by someone bringing up some autistic guy who NEEDS a real doll.”
Ginmar responds with: “Ren is a pro-porn (naturally) stripper who declared she hated radfems so much she wished they would die under trucks choking on their own blood. Like her is a bunch of pro-porned empowerfulled sex pozzes, some women who think it's empowerfulling to do wht the patriarchy wants them to: Trinity, Belledame, Anti-princess, and Bitch/Lab. Supproting them are male porn hounds who use porn and hookers and defend that as a 'right.' Those are IACB and Anthony Kennerson, a pornhound who threatened me and who Piny---of Feministe---is here defending, by making up a future potential threat from me.”
Ah, where to begin? First off, if you want to know about me, specifically and all, ask me? After all, Gin’s opinion is hardly unbiased. I mean, for one, let’s only list “stripper”, because then it is easy to act like I don’t know what porn and other forms of sex work are like, right? Then let’s completely apply my choking comment to all rad fems, and not anyone else it was aimed at, out of context and everything! Oh, let’s also state that I said that sexwork was empowering to the woman tribe! Which, of course, I never said! In short, let’s get everything all wrong, slanted and tainted to our very special purpose and defense of the one twoo feminism! And shit Gin, ya stole my “threat”, who needs a future one?!?
And yeah, I’ll go bitchy for this one, because frankly I’ve had it…hey, if you are going to spend however many hours in the last week questioning my “deleting tactics”, “intellectual honesty” and intelligence, well Gin, you might want to stop deleting / banning everyone who questions you, stop telling half truths- or more specifically almost full lies- about all us meanie “sex pox’s”, and yeah, look over your spelling…
Now, moving onto “What does the Patriarchy want anyway?”
Well, lot’s of things I’d imagine, but this whole “doing what men want you to do is not subversive or feminist” battle cry I see everywhere…
Yawn.
Guess what? Yeah, me getting naked or fucking on film for money? I bet the menz dig it. In fact, I know they do. The menz dig that shit. But guess what? It ain’t all about the menz! I like doing it. Wooo, gasp, boo, hiss, but yep, it’s true! I like my job. And holy shit, a woman doing something she wants whether or not the menz dig it? Imagine that shit! A woman writing about doing it without actually hardly ever talking about the menz? A woman saying “shit, I really like to fuck and have all kinds of crazy sex, so I figured what the hell, I might as well get paid for it….hahahaha, stupid menz, paying me to do what I like doing anyway?” Guess what? Not all about the menz. Hell, y’all talk more about the menz than any of us sex pox’s! But then again, I suppose a Real Feminist ™ cannot have interests (like various forms of fucking) in common with the menz. Ever. Or she isn’t a Real Feminist ™.
And I gotta laugh, because really, since my feministe thread of doom, some folk have pretty much proven every accusation I ever laid at Rad Fem feet to be….true!
But wait! “Why would Feministe let my Anti Feminist self post there in the first place?
Well, that begs the question outta me why did every Real Feminist ignore every other post I made there except the lookism one, but…I don’t expect an answer to that. I also suspect that me disagreeing with some rad fem thought and some rad fem/anti porn tactics about porn and sex work done by the willing makes me an antifeminist to some, but not to the Feministe staff? I mean, apparently I am pro trafficking and forced sexual labor or something….either that or I am so deeply traumatized by my own experiences or so outta my mind on blow all the time or something something something that I just don’t know anything at all about not only the realities of my industry but reality at all or….wait…
Maybe I am just a marketing front! Damn, it’s so nice to be stereotyped and objectified like that!
You know, at this point, I just have to shake my head, sneer, and ask:
What the hell are you people smoking?
And I haven’t even gone back to the porn thread yet….
EDIT: Now I have, and it seems to have turned into a BDSM/natural desire/what is rooted in biology discussion, so...nothing to add.
Psh. And I’m the asshole….
Wednesday, September 05, 2007
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40 comments:
Yes, you are the asshole . . . honest and thoughtful and all passionate and shit. whatever.
Blech. All of this, just, you, know bastante already!
"For example the one that was claiming that giving up BDSM porn makes her derealized and depersonalized. I have some personal experience with mental illness and that just doesn't make much sense to me."
Well, I have some experience with dp/dr as a direct result of stifling aspects of myself & adapting behaviors that were wrong for me and I get this JUST fine.
Like her is a bunch of pro-porned empowerfulled sex pozzes, some women who think it's empowerfulling to do wht the patriarchy wants them to: Trinity, Belledame, Anti-princess, and Bitch/Lab.
yeah, that's why I'm taking the bus (or walking my two hundred pound tail, in my practical handmedown sandals) to my marginal clerical job, for the privilege of making starvation wages with no health insurance..."the patriarchy" just luuuuuuuuuuvs me, baby.
I am simply drowning - drowning!- in patriarchally approved privilege and goodies.
pass the ramen, please.
she has this concept of me, of us, that is so out of alignment with reality.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - buying into the myth of patriarchy (whether to suck its dick or bite it off) is part of the problem, not part of the solution.
and you know, if folks would just ask me about stuff instead of making wild-ass assumptions, and if they'd would stop attributing to others what statements/behaviors are actually MINE, I might just take a minute out of my sexee, sexee day, climb out of my sex cage, put some clothes on and answer them.
except I don't really live in a sex cage. I don't spend 24 hours a day sucking dick. I don't run around naked all the time (much as I'd dig that). I have a job. I'm really normal. I don't think I've portrayed myself any differently than that.
AP: Seriously. Not even I spend 24 hours a day sucking dick...in fact, I don't know ANYONE who does, I think it is actually impossible. And yeah, I'd love to be naked all the time, but oddly enough, I'm not either. Amazing what people learn if they, you know, stop assuming long enough to ASK or what the hell else ever.
Yep, I'm pro-porned and all about "doing what the patriarchy wants me to," all right! Which is totally why I'm plus-sized, low-maintenance to the point of "slob," and oh yeah: I'm A Lesbian. Not The Political Kind, But Not The Raunch Kind Either.
what a disingenuous fuckstick she is.
and yeah, you know, it's really difficult to just go to peoples' fucking blogs and read them or -ask- instead of "what can you tell me about them?"
Ginmar responds with: “Ren is a pro-porn (naturally) stripper who declared she hated radfems so much she wished they would die under trucks choking on their own blood. Like her is a bunch of pro-porned empowerfulled sex pozzes, some women who think it's empowerfulling to do wht the patriarchy wants them to: Trinity, Belledame, Anti-princess, and Bitch/Lab. Supproting them are male porn hounds who use porn and hookers and defend that as a 'right.' Those are IACB and Anthony Kennerson, a pornhound who threatened me and who Piny---of Feministe---is here defending, by making up a future potential threat from me.”
Oh..so she's still playing those cards off the bottom of the deck, ehhh??
For the record, I did NOT physically threaten Ginmar; I only said that some of the tactics that she and her allies were doing would come back to haunt them later, because some (Rosarose???) would be tempted to strike back in kind. If she wants to take that as a "threat", then she is as dimwitted and paranoid as she is an arrogant asshat.
And she still can't get Quare Dewd off the brain, can't she?? That was, like. over a year ago, and she's still bitching and moaning about it??
She needs to chill, and in a hurry. I can take only so much.
Anthony
I left a polite comment on charazado's lj. maybe i shouldn't've done it at all, but what the hell. I'm tired of this, too.
seriously, belle - who do you have to fuck around here for people to get that you're a lesbian?
I would love it if we could retire the word "pornsick." 'Cause THAT isn't dripping with judgment or anything.
I maintain, as always, that some people just need a good swift kick in the ass.
Oh, and didn't you love that one interjection by the girl who just CAN'T IMAGINE why anyone would think that ATM is a bit off color?
Okay dumbfucks, it's on.
I would love for somebody show to me where I said I can't imagine why anyone would think ATM is a bit off color. (Although, the phrase "off color" sounds a little too "this offends the delicate sensibilities of the high society ladies" for me.) I do not appreciate having words put in my mouth. (You can form your own pun or metaphor here.)
What I said was, could we PLEASE stop with the judging of other people's sexual activities, if those activities are among consenting adults. WHY IS THIS A DIFFICULT CONCEPT? Why is this controversial? You know what, nobody has to like ATM, I really don't care, to be quite honest. What I do care about is when people start with that same old drivel about, "Oh, how could anyone like THAT, that is just so DISGUSTING, if you like that there must be something wrong with you!!" And with ATM in particular, people have a goddamn conniption fit about "OMG POOOOOO!!!11!!1" In which case, I think calming the fuck down and getting a little education about the way the body's plumbing actually works (assuming one does not have a medical condition that would make things different) would be a good idea. We don't have much in the way of sex ed in this country, nor much in the way of education about our own bodies; and all of that goes double when it's something (gasp!) "off color."
I'm sorry, but I got over poop jokes when I was about 13. Not sure about the rest of y'all.
I might just take a minute out of my sexee, sexee day, climb out of my sex cage, put some clothes on and answer them.
LOL!!!!
Antiprincess, I love you.
and yeah, I dunno where BL/QD/etc. comes into it; she's been mostly out of commission long enough for even the Buzzy Bees not to have taken note of her existence, and that was -months- and -months- ago.
hell, I didn't even post at the damn feministe threads, at -all-; but somehow it's also my fault that g!nm0r got her not-at-all-sparkly-or-pornie undies in a wad for the 8,100,000,879th time, this time something or other the mod queue at Feministe i mean Renegade is OUT TO GET HER HELP HELP SHE'S BEING OPPRESSED or whatever the fuck.
and, I'm "stalking" her because I mentioned here and there, usually in commiseration with someone else noting what a damn asshole she's been (on other occasions when people I respect or at least have no beef with have said they like her, I've generally said nothing or at least, "sure, I can see why you would;" because, hey, interesting things to say and all, when she's not in Full Frontal Foaming mode), oh, say, you want to see a -real- meltdown? Check this out: old and very public link to g!nm0r acting rather ASTONISHINGLY assholian, i mean on an EPIC scale, that's been immortalized now in several locations and includes the very memorable and not at all ironic for a feminist line about "You're that professional virgin who had her vagina embalmed" (and thus have nothing to say).
so, it becomes, oh, I'm mocking a war veteran.
And I'm like: um, when exactly did I mock her -service?- Hell, when did I mock her PTSD? Yeah, okay, she was Under The Influence when she had that particular meltdown, I take it she's gotten help since and mazel tov, I mean that sincerely.
But. Has she -stopped- acting like a rabid chihuahua? Has she gotten even remotely better about the whole "I must NEVER make a mistake EVER, everyone's out to get meeeeee, and: project! project! project!" Not that I've noticed. So, y'know, I'm inclined to think that whatever that's all about is -not- in fact about the PTSD, or at least not whatever happened to her in Iraq; that seems to be a more longstanding personality problem. There are a number of psychy terms for that, too; these days I'm more inclined to simply go,
"Asshole!"
because, you know, really sums it up.
Belle:
That's what hits me the most...when someone can NEVER admit that maybe they were wrong. I don't do the armchair shrink thing, but that whole "I am NEVER, EVER wrong" thing?
Umm, yeah.
You know, I honestly hadn't even known what ATM -was- until some anti-porn person brought it up? Personally I don't really get the appeal. I mean, rimming, yes; anal sex yes; and oral sex, sure! But: one directly to the other? Porquoi? Eh, rhetorical question really. I'm just sort of boggled that some people are -so- fascinated by -other- peoples' sex lives. And then, when people go, "couldja please stop pawing through my panty drawer, even with an ideological rationalization it's still damn invasive, kthxbai," blahblahPatriarchyblahblah o you think we're prudes blah blah.
Dude--I don't care if someone's a prude. Some of my best friends, etc. etc. I do care about someone being a judgmental fuckhead in my direction, yes. And will respond in kind.
when people complain about "yooouuu just don't want to hear any criticism!" you know, that doesn't mean "analysis" (personally I've found much more interesting and in-depth analysis of this sort of shit elsewhere, thanks); what they mean is "You won't let me pick you apart without saying anything back." And, well, uh...actually, no, you're right, I won't.
and, y'know, about that whole "everyone's out to get me" thing:
well, I'm sure that bit is true for more than one person on both sides here, still, she kind of exemplifies this maxim:
"The great thing about believing that everyone is out to get you is that eventually it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy."
and, you know something else that occurred to me:
renegade, you posted that "die choking on your own truck, etc." thing in response to what you saw as people being shitty to -other- people you cared about. Including, but not limited to, people within the radfem/sparkleblee Eternal Saga--I think you named BA and bfp there, no? and that was more about their disgust with what was happening w/in the larger white liberal/libfem blogosphere. Point being, anyway: you were raging on behalf of your friends.
g!nm0r, mostly she seems to get bent out of shape when (she thinks) it's about herself.
Just notin'.
by the way: I realize some people take this whole "Patriarchy" construct more literally than others; but y'know, since when is it this monolithic anthropomorphized critter that "wants" certain things out of individuals? What, like Jesus wants me to repent of my fondness for muffdiving and dress more modestly, and the Patriarchy wants me to give blowjobs and...dress less modestly? Me, -personally-, mind. Gosh, who knew my doings were so Important?
Belle: Yep. I did in fact mention BfP, Black Amazon, the Apostate, along with AP, Laura, so on...not all of whom were being, ahem, treated poorly by Rad Fems.
But of course, it's always all about them. Whatever. And oddly enough, I don't think Gin participated in that whole throwdown?
Shrug.
You know, I honestly hadn't even known what ATM -was- until some anti-porn person brought it up? Personally I don't really get the appeal. I mean, rimming, yes; anal sex yes; and oral sex, sure! But: one directly to the other? Porquoi? Eh, rhetorical question really.
*shrug* Different people have different reasons, I suppose. Personally, I like it, but there's no grand reason behind it that I can identify, nor do I think there should be, nor do I really care to look for one further, thanks much. Sometimes, people like what they like. And there doesn't have to be more to it than that.
But you're right about certain anti-porn types being quite fascinated with various sexual practices that they claim are so horrifying and disgusting and degrading and how could anyone do THAT ew ew ew ew...
*yawn*
Then they start going on about, well, if you like ATM, you must have been abused as a child! You must have weird issues with power! Etc etc etc... god it's all so old.
yeah, when I said "I don't get it" I meant it in sort of the same way that I don't "get" why people enjoy, say, bubble tea. i.e. it doesn't appeal to me at all; but, hey, so it goes.
...on the other hand, I don't spend lots and lots of energy ranting about how DANGEROUS and DISGUSTING bubble tea is EW ICKY GROSS either...
("sashimi," if you want a closer analogy wrt the "dangerous" I suppose. you know: ew! raw fish! do you KNOW how many people die of food poisoning from spoiled fish every year? and it's so GROSS, how COULD you, and the sellout sashimi chefs and the people who patronize them, you know how overfished the oceans are? do you KNOW how they catch fish? oh sure, I'm not a total vegan EITHER, but at least I blah blah blah etc. etc. zzzzzzz)
Eh. You know what? People who can't understand why a woman with a disability would bring up disability concerns aren't worth my time.
and thanks, Kim, for your comment.
BD said:
g!nm0r, mostly she seems to get bent out of shape when (she thinks) it's about herself.
Well, she was all up my nut a few weeks ago about my differences with Heart. Which was actually kind of out of the blue, since I don't remember Ginmar having any part in that fight when it was going on.
"ew! raw fish! do you KNOW how many people die of food poisoning from spoiled fish every year? and it's so GROSS, how COULD you, and the sellout sashimi chefs and the people who patronize them, you know how overfished the oceans are? do you KNOW how they catch fish? oh sure, I'm not a total vegan EITHER, but at least I blah blah blah etc."
heh, I think I can recite that entire blogwar:
MERCURY MERCURY MERCURY SALMONELLA HEPATITIS A!! AND MERCURY!!
OMEGA 3'S!!!
WEIRD TEXTURES!1
OMG SO DON'T EAT THEM U LOZR
WEEEEEEIRD IT'S RAAAAAAAAW MOMMY HEEEEEEEELP
WTF
oh, right, okay. well, they're pals i guess. Hatfields and McCoys, ahoy!
i'm just sort of gobsmacked as to how much hay some people can make out of, like, their comments not appearing, or their Wiki article not being accepted. and yeah, I know Heart was experiencing more serious shit at that juncture, but it's incredibly disingenuous of her to keep insinuating that you had something to do with the anon attacks, or even that the anon attacks mean she deserves another "trial" wrt her dumb self-promoting bio.
Oy. You know, if someone's interested in learning about people's backgrounds, wouldn't it make some sense to ... read those people, rather than asking random other people to give a precis? It's not like you're hard to find or something.
I just ... anything substantive I might have to say is sort of buried in the, "Okay, ... why not go form your own conclusions rather than ask momma bird to regurgitate some conclusions for you?"
And people wonder why factions form. Heh.
well, the latest is I gave her a fairly thorough precis from my POV as to what drives me, some others of "us" and what's actually going on; she sez now she was really curious as to whether "these people" made money from the sex industry. including advertising. i told her she'd have to be more specific about who "these people" are, I'm afraid. and that, once again, there seems to be an -awful- lot of straw all around. not sure if any of it's gonna register; oh well, i tried.
Now wait, *who* is this person, again?
"Oy. You know, if someone's interested in learning about people's backgrounds, wouldn't it make some sense to ... read those people, rather than asking random other people to give a precis? It's not like you're hard to find or something.
I just ... anything substantive I might have to say is sort of buried in the, 'Okay, ... why not go form your own conclusions rather than ask momma bird to regurgitate some conclusions for you?'"
There is something weirdly cult-leaderish about G-mar, Twisty, and Heart, as there was about Dworkin. Like these are the wise leaders who tell us everything we need to know about the world and are not to be questioned.
well, and also people tend to be lazy and/or indirect in any case. i suppose i've gone "WHO is this person?"about someone i thought was being a tool, on a number of occasions when I wasn't really all that fussed about it, to my friends, as a sort of rhetorical question, although i was also curious enough to hear any dirt they did have. like, i already think this person is an asshole, i don't really feel like talking to them, thanks. This did seem like a bit more than that, though.
From my POV, 'indirect' precludes saying, "Hi! I am going to make my creepy stalker impulses public knowledge!"
When I feel like a creepy stalker, I don't go announcing it in the hope that someone else has already manifested my alarming obsessions and saved me the effort.
Uphill! Both ways! In the snow! Dressed like a ninja! Did you know how hard it is to properly ninje in the snow? Even if it weren't for the wearing black, the whole footprints thing is such a pain in the ass.
When I feel like a creepy stalker, I don't go announcing it in the hope that someone else has already manifested my alarming obsessions and saved me the effort.
Uphill! Both ways! In the snow! Dressed like a ninja! Did you know how hard it is to properly ninje in the snow? Even if it weren't for the wearing black, the whole footprints thing is such a pain in the ass.
-falls over laughing-
"well, the latest is I gave her a fairly thorough precis from my POV as to what drives me, some others of "us" and what's actually going on; she sez now she was really curious as to whether "these people" made money from the sex industry."
Link plz?
Charazardo is CREEPY.
uh, yeah, I am forced to conclude that this is so, at this point.
...replying to PF, there...
Charazardo was actually quite supportive and open minded towards me in the only discussion I've had with her at ginmar's, particularly since the other women in that discussion were being closed minded and horrible.
As for gin herself... I've had very few problems with her and seem to have missed something enormous, so I'll just keep my mouth shut.
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