So, some further thinking on pornspeak, and also some thinking on this post by the Apostate, and the tendency we have to equate our physical bodies, most specifically the holes between our legs, to our persondom, our soul, our worth, the proverbial holy grail of who we are.
For a long time I’ve felt that this was a view driven heavily by religious thought, applied most heavily to women, perpetuated by various aspect of society, and enforced by both genders with almost equal zeal. I find this odd, as I’ve always found the view that a woman’s worth, the throne of her persondom, is her vaginal, or, more broadly, her sexuality was extremely patriarchal, if we’re going there. Yep, it’s true, I don’t believe sex is an intimate act, that, as Ariel Levy says, those of us in sex work “are giving up the most private part of their being for public consumption”, that, in short, the most precious, personal, intimate thing I have to offer someone is, well, my cunt. It’s a biological thing, capable of acts wonderful, pleasurable, amazing and all kinds of stuff, but it is not some mystical center of my soul, or of my personhood…it’s an organ, flesh and blood, kind of like a hand or a foot. It does not posses cosmic spiritual power. Intimacy and such? Those things live in the heart and head, not the crotch. And thus the assertion that a woman’s worth, her soul, her persondom, her HER is somehow affixed to her genitalia has always vexed me…not it in a it makes me angry way, but in a I don’t get it way…. especially when I hear it out of feminists or atheists…because it is such a patriarchy/religious driven notion.
I talked about the notion specifically in how I didn’t get it with regards to feminism and such here. One of my better off into strange world rants, imho. And admittedly, I have not been raped, I do not know what kind of a violation that must be, how horrible it must be, and how it affects ones sense of persondom, their sense of worth or self. I don’t, and I am not going to pretend that I do or can even act like I understand, because I can’t. Nor have I lived in a society like the one the Apostate hails from, where gender based segregation is highly enforced and the roles of women are so harshly defined and limited, so I will not pretend to understand or know what that is like either.
But yes, in general, the willingness of so many people who rail against such things in so many ways to define a woman’s worth, her very soul and persondom, by what she does with her cunt absolutely blows my mind. I Just Do Not Get It.
So right, how does this all relate to pornspeak again? Well, because it relates often to words said about a woman in a sexual sense. Whore, slut, tramp, cunt. It devalues her sexually- worthless whore. It plays on, counts on, and sells on, and yes, offends on the notion that a woman’s worth and status as a human is somehow tied to her genitalia…and everyone, from the religious right to feminists to the average person on the street is buying it. Lock, Stock and Barrel, they are buying it. And damn does it sell.
And I guess I don’t see that kind of speak as so degrading because I’ve never felt that my sexual organs were somehow the mystical center of my self. Worthless whore? Okay, sure, if you buy into that crap it might be offensive. I don’t, so it’s not. If anything, it’ amusing to me. The idea that a woman is somehow lesser then, not worth anything, soulless, simply because she fucks a lot and does weird, kinky, “nasty” stuff, or gasp, gets paid for it? Only one of the stupid notions in the entirety of the world, really. And so many people buy into it. I can’t really see jumping all over pornographers for doing this kind of stuff when it sells so well and women buy into it and enforce it so heartily themselves.
There are words out there that hurt, that are degrading, but they are not the ones I generally see in porn copy. My appearance gets attacked all the time-same with a lot of women, and sure, it gets old, but its not the throne of my soul. My intelligence gets attacked a lot- same with a lot of people, both female and male, and yep, that annoys me. My feelings? Yep, those too. The fact that folk are quick to accuse me of having no soul gets old too…because those things are more about what, in my opinion, makes up the throne of persondom…far more what make up a persons worth than their genitalia ever could be.
But so long as other people continue to buy and sell the notion that a woman’s center, her soul, and her worth is found between her legs…I suppose I will be chuckling and not getting it, and other people will be offended by pornspeak.
Friday, November 23, 2007
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28 comments:
No, no -- you don't understand. It's because our cunts HAVE been used to control us as PERSONS is why the two are equated -- not because I think a cunt is holy or something.
I would be happy to see sex and our bodies as uncomplicated things that are useful or fun (actually mostly do)-- but personally, it's difficult to always forget that my sex and my body has been used by society against me, to control me and to punish me (as still happens all over the world). It becomes about more than just my pussy if it's also about my autonomy as a person.
And even now my cunt defines my life and controls my life in more ways than I want it to. So I can't just reduce it to "just a cunt." It's in control of many aspects of my life, and yes, my personhood.
I don’t believe sex is an intimate act, that, as Ariel Levy says, those of us in sex work “are giving up the most private part of their being for public consumption”, that, in short, the most precious, personal, intimate thing I have to offer someone is, well, my cunt.
sex is nice, yeah. sex is fun. more sex = more fun, under the best of circumstances.
but is my cunt really the best I have to offer? and is it the best I have to offer because men say it is the best I have to offer?
If I don't agree that my vagina is my holy grail (as you so eloquently phrased it), what does that mean?
for me, it meant that I went through a prolonged and wildly promiscuous period of experimental recreational sex, some of which was awesome and some of which was, um, less satisfying. I don't feel that it diminished my soul any. how could it, if my soul is not connected to my holes?
but I'm just weird like that.
APostate:
Yep, I see that, and I see that it is something you're working through as a person....trust me, I see this out of So Many Women its just mind boggling. And I don't feel like we can move onto the sex and fun stage if so many women still buy into it.
I mean, I liked your post, it made me think and all.
My goodness, you are a brilliant writer Ren! I have so many things I want to say about this. I just don't know where to begin.
Like The Apostate, I spent many years in a religion with very prescribed gender roles. It defined what we could look at, what we could wear, how much jewelry we could don, what sort of piercings we could get, what we could say, where we could go, when we could fuck, who we could fuck, what sort of fucking we could do. Not only was it defined, it was also enforced in ways that many/most people would find abusive.
I've been raped several times, both as a child and as an adult. I can't even admit this without feeling ashamed and embarrassed even after all these years. I know that I shouldn't feel that way. People can tell me that 'til the cows come home and it won't/doesn't remove those feelings.
What does work for me, what helps me get past that trauma and the emotional scars of coming from the religious background I have, is being who I am unapologetically. I'm tired of feeling like, because I'm a survivor of rape, I "shouldn't" enjoy being fucked in certain ways, I shouldn't enjoy having people find me sexually attractive, I shouldn't wear what I sometimes want to wear and I shouldn't be able to decide under what conditions I will engage in sex.
To me, all of these "shouldn't"'s are attempts to make me responsible for the fact that there are some sick assholes who are willing to rape women. Living my life around someone else's backwards standards means being victimized all over again.
If I want to fuck my partner because he was sweet enough to cook my favorite dinner and dessert, then that's my business. Let's say I'm not hungry but there is a top that I want off of E-Bay, so my partner gave me the money to get it, if I want to put on a cute French maid outfit and put on a show for him as my little "thank-you", what's the difference? And if there was a difference, it still isn't anyone else's business as long as me and my partner are okay with it.
I have some views about the mystical vagina stuff too but I'll stop and let someone else talk too.
Okay, I lied. I'm not going to stop talking yet. You know, I have to wonder if these people who believe as Ariel Levy does realize how ableist their view is. I've lived in various states of disability over the years, from being stuck on my back for months at a time to up and walking around just like non-disabled people do. That means, I've had times where my naughty bits got lots of sexual use and other times where it didn't. And you know what? I was no more or less a person regardless of what I did or didn't do with my vagina.
I don't need a vagina to be a whole person, a sexual being and a soul. I mean, if the most significant thing we can share with someone is sex, then what about those who can't have sex? Aren't they essentially saying that we're incapable of sharing ourselves fully? I reject their notion. I see my thoughts, my views, as the most meaningful thing I have to share. I've shared my body with plenty of people: the surgeon digging around in my chest with his hands, the obstetrician who sewed me up after I ripped during childbirth, the gynecologist sticking her fingers inside of me during a pap smear. Do I feel like I shared some part of my soul with these people? Nope. I shared my body with them for various reasons, all of them agreed upon ahead of time. Isn't that the same thing that people are doing when they engage in porn? Sharing your body with someone is no more inherently meaningful and intimate than having your dentist put a filling in your tooth.
I'm missing all sorts of chunks of my body at this point in my life. That rib and that piece of my spine...yeah, I wish they didn't have to be removed. However, I don't feel like I lost a portion of my personhood because I gave them to someone else (lots of someone's, actually. The tumor board here in Louisiana took it all for examination).
So what's up with this notion that using your pussy in certain ways means you're giving something to someone? They aren't cutting out your pussy and taking it home with them. If you have a case where something was REALLY cut out of you, then you might have a basis for an argument like Levy's--even that would be tenuous--but otherwise, you're just being melodramatic.
I've gotten more pleasure from a catheter than I have from some of the sexual episodes I've had. Seriously, which one is more significant to me--having sex with someone or not having to worry about pissing myself when I'm incapacitated? The latter, definitely! So, can we stop acting as if sex is the most special thing we can give someone?
Okay, I'm really going to stop now because I'm just ranting.
My take on it is given by what happened to me last night.
I am in the early stages of courtship with a submissive girl who has only just discovered the world of BDSM. We have spoent every night for the past couple of weeks talking online, and last night we met in person for the first time.
Many things were exchanged as we sat together in the pub. Although (naturally) we remained fully-clothed, I discreetly touched her in many places, including stroking her cunt with my finger. As we talked about it this evening online, it became quite clear that neither of us saw that as being in any way shape or form the most intimate or special moment, but what meant most to us was the way our minds touched, the way our personhoods touched. And yes, some of that was conveyed by the ways in which we touched one another physically. But there would have been no intimacy without the emotional interactions, the conversation, the meeting of minds, that we shared.
A cunt is a beautiful thing, but it's the mind that attaches meaning to it.
There's also the whole virginity thing, and the idea that virgins are pure, and women who lose their virginity are "used" and thus less valuable, or even valueless...but that's from the patriarchy, not feminism. It's just that feminism is using the same argument from the other side.
I can't stand this idea that because someone else equates me to a bdy part I'm not even all that big on, sexually, I should feel weird about words. Fuck people who want power over me, I'll say whatever the hell I want.
I'm gonna point at a grey area that I'm sure you recognise, but which I'd like to see noted explicitly. It's one I'm painfully aware of because of my own stuff, but I suspect it's a thing other people can relate to even without damage like my assault damage.
I was sexually assaulted when I was fourteen. One of the things that this did to me was make the concept of initiating a sexual relationship extremely fraught, full of flashback risks and a high sense of emotional danger, just because of the experience of having my sexual boundaries transgressed against.
Which means that access to my particular cunt is highly trust-based, basically. Not because I consider it a holy grail or part of my worth as a person, but because I need to be reasonably confident that I will not be hurt in the same way again.
I think there are a lot of people out there who have significant levels of trust tied up in their sexuality, whether because of damage like me, because of emotional vulnerability, because of physical closeness, and other things I can't be arsed thinking of right now, that makes the parsing of sex-as-intimate a natural one for a lot of people.
In fact, I think it's playing off that bit of mental processing that makes the defective treatment of sexuality as a woman's worth, virginity as a woman's worth, 'purity' as a woman's worth, so entrenched. It twigs off this notion that sex hooks into some sort of intimacy and then twists that off into pathology. If there weren't something underlying that it was playing off of, I don't think it'd be such a popular bit of stupidity, y'know?
I think the equation of a cunt or other body part or something a person does to that person's self-worth is a matter of politics.
I define politics as the attempt to control one's environment.
Some people wish to control other people. Many people who do this do so by making complex, multi-faceted, and personal issues appear "black and white." This way, it is either good or it isn't. This is an especially effective way to engage in politics (especially in this lazy country) because it takes all the work and responsibility off of the individual. Intellectual laziness. Issues are this way or that way. Nothing in-between, no shades of grey, a digital age with a collective binary consciousness.
"Okay, I'm really going to stop now because I'm just ranting."
But was a very nice rant! Thank you for sharing.
I absolutely agree that sex can be divorced from intimacy (I've rarely been able to do it, but that's just me). And also that a woman's identity isn't vested in her sexual parts.
So, pornspeak doesn't offend me in a personal way, and I've been turned on by it when it's done well. However, I can't honestly say I think it's entirely unproblematic. The fact that pornspeak is tilted strongly in the direction of women being degraded coupled with the accessibility of porn to young people who may be suggestible concerns me. Not everyone's evolved enough to understand the context in which this language can be inoffensive or fun.
I don't have a problem with porn in which both men and women are referred to as pieces of meat. And personally, even where the woman is, and she's described as "stupid" or a loser, I'm not going to be offended or feel less worthy. But would a young person respond that way?
None of this is an argument for banning. Or for not making a product that sells. I'm not sure what the answer is.
"I think there are a lot of people out there who have significant levels of trust tied up in their sexuality, whether because of damage like me, because of emotional vulnerability, because of physical closeness, and other things I can't be arsed thinking of right now, that makes the parsing of sex-as-intimate a natural one for a lot of people."
That's true -- but:
I think while that
may be a source of some women's squicked-out feelings about "pornspeak",
the invasive feeling that you've been disrespected-as-cunt, where somehow cunt equals self, doesn't strike me as what the pornographers intend.
I *may* be wrong, as some of the specifically degradation-oriented porn may be more about this. But I suspect not, and I suspect not rather strongly.
And it seems to be a major piece of many antipornradfems' position that they do mean it, and know it, and are consciously doing it, and only the clueless can't see the truth.
The most important thing about me is most certainly not my cunt. It's not even the most important part of my body.
Hell, it's not even the most important part of my genitals... I love the thing, but if I had to choose between keeping my cunt and my clit, it's no fucking contest. (Ha! Pun!)
Fucking is not necessarily sharing my deepest mostest personal part with someone. And you know what? I HAVE been raped, and for me at least the actual vagina bit was only one small slice of the trauma.
First, having chosen your path in life, your rationalizations will only continue to cover for the services your provide your select clientele. Having abandoned the prospect of motherhood, that is, of being a devoted mother and doting wife to an adoring husband, your blog site serves as a means to resolve inner conflicts over your choices.
Second, your rhetoric over pornspeak, and specifically identifying your "persondom" with the "hole between our legs" as "who we are" displays a sincere attempt towards a disputation on self worth and the symbol of that worth, or the means by which you justify your living to yourself and means of understanding yourself as a female within your world of understanding.
If you reduce value to that "hole" then you are what you speak. An empty cauldron, a hole, a bottomless pit where men pay to push dirt. Since you have forsaken your body to fertilize men's dreams and continue the species, you now tender your flesh and most likely in tangential manners that we need not speak of here.
An orgasm is essential to good health. The control over all things sexual is essential to governments and religions and is the singular reason why there is so much dysfunctional behavior within our societies. Sex without Love reduces intimacy to depraved behaviors. Sex is a form of communication but through the intimate exchange between lovers, not the utilitarian meanderings of frustration and predation.
I found your website through a link. The color caption on "free the Jena six" though touching, does not even resemble the truth of incident nor does it describe the events and personalities of that story. Women are gentle and nurturing, and attempting to use your genuine feelings to advance a cause you do not fully understand and appreciate only demonstrates what feminism has done to our nation. Responsibility demands accountability but not to our emotional side. It requires a proper perspective into the matter.
Hope you had a good Thanksgiving and good health.
"but is my cunt really the best I have to offer?"
Well, I think this whole sex/cunt-obsessed blog answers that question.
Come back when you start writing posts and comments about your ongoing efforts to solve our energy crisis or global meltdown (like many MEN out there).
Instead of hourly self-absorbed rantings ad nauseum on me, myself & my shmelly cunt.
Blessed Bee: Aw shit, and I thought people came here for the football rants and roman history?
Don't like what I write? Here's a tip....don't fucking read it ya moron.
Julia Kristeva, izzat you?...oh, no, it's probably just one or two of maddy's dybbuks again.
Anonymous-
“First, having chosen your path in life, your rationalizations will only continue to cover for the services your provide your select clientele. Having abandoned the prospect of motherhood, that is, of being a devoted mother and doting wife to an adoring husband, your blog site serves as a means to resolve inner conflicts over your choices.”
Cover what, exactly? I’m pretty open about that. And who says I’ve abandoned the prospect of motherhood? I mean, it’s not high on my list of things to do, have a baby at this moment, but nothing is ever set in stone you know…plenty of people in sexwork have children after all. And in cased you missed, I have an adoring husband, also known as Mr.E ‘round these parts, and I treat him pretty good too. So, what conflicts would those be again?
”Second, your rhetoric over pornspeak, and specifically identifying your "persondom" with the "hole between our legs" as "who we are" displays a sincere attempt towards a disputation on self worth and the symbol of that worth, or the means by which you justify your living to yourself and means of understanding yourself as a female within your world of understanding.”
What? Actually, I am suggesting that a sum of a woman is far more than the hole between her legs…and anyone who thinks otherwise are the folk that I worry about.
”If you reduce value to that "hole" then you are what you speak. An empty cauldron, a hole, a bottomless pit where men pay to push dirt. Since you have forsaken your body to fertilize men's dreams and continue the species, you now tender your flesh and most likely in tangential manners that we need not speak of here.”
Yet, you see, I don’t reduce value to that hole, or any other really. And why not speak of them, Anonymous? Why not say what you really mean? I am by no means suggesting that anyone should do, or even could do, what I do, but I certainly do think there is a lot more to life and what women have to offer it than being dutiful wives and mothers. Nothing against those women who do so, but it’s not for everyone, nor the sum of their worth either.
“An orgasm is essential to good health. The control over all things sexual is essential to governments and religions and is the singular reason why there is so much dysfunctional behavior within our societies. Sex without Love reduces intimacy to depraved behaviors. Sex is a form of communication but through the intimate exchange between lovers, not the utilitarian meanderings of frustration and predation.”
Yep, orgasms are great things. Agreed there, but I have to disagree when you say dysfunctional behavior is solely the fault of sex…I mean, how about violence, drugs, a sketchy economy & racism? And I’m rather a fan of depraved utilitarianism.
“I found your website through a link. The color caption on "free the Jena six" though touching, does not even resemble the truth of incident nor does it describe the events and personalities of that story. Women are gentle and nurturing, and attempting to use your genuine feelings to advance a cause you do not fully understand and appreciate only demonstrates what feminism has done to our nation. Responsibility demands accountability but not to our emotional side. It requires a proper perspective into the matter.”
Really then, care to educate the masses on the Jena 6 then? Do tell. Oh, and I believe strongly in accountability. As for me being gentle and nurturing, you are really barking up the wrong tree on that one. Not all women are genteel lotus blossoms and full of grace and warm fuzzies, trust me on that one.
“Hope you had a good Thanksgiving and good health.”
Both are good, thanks.
Reading comprehension FTW!
I love that assumption that sex workers can't be wives and mothers. It slots nicely in next to "can't be happy" and "can't be loved by a decent person" on my "bullshit" shelf.
Hexy: Ayep. It's a popular one with a certain mindset, I've noted.
My cunt is sacred. And I'm a stripper. So there. LOL
Well Tara, we sorta come at this thing from different places. Yours may very well be the golden temple of enlightenment, mine is an organ ;)
Uh... if anyone's cunt is "golden", they may want to get that looked at.
Or their piss is rather concentrated and all over everything.
forsaken your body to fertilize men's dreams
BWAHAHAHAHA! Why are these people always so fucking corny? Can there be morality trolls that don't sound like the back cover of a harlequin romance?
Cut back on the multi-vitamins!
Vanessa: They manage to make it sound MORE inviting. I mean, if I had to choose between "forsaking my body to fertilize men's dreams" and something as bland as "fucking for money", I know what I'd pick.
But then, that's kinda the point. It's that perceived appeal they're pissed about.
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