(Mr E & myself have this image in magnet form on our fridge....it's true you know....) So yes, I think about porn a lot. Watch a whole lot of it too. Which caused me to think of my book collection, or rather my recently read and to read pile of books stacked up on my nightstand, which includes Bob's Getting off (and can I tell you that even the cover of that one freaks me out?), Indicent, Pornified, The Game, FCP & the Rise of Raunch Culture and a big pink photography book simply titled Porn?
It's no secret, I like porn. I belong to a few pretty infamous porn sites, buy a few DVD's every other month or so. I'm pretty picky about porn; I know what I like and that is all I want to see. I have performers I like better than others, directors too. And yep, here in blog land I know other porn fans, and people who are not wholly against porn...those who dig indie porn and alt porn and gay porn and lesbian porn, folk who like or want realistic porn with realistic people in it. There are people who like bdsm porn. I know folk who prefer the softer stuff with a more romantic edge, or even just a plot. And I read and listen and am glad they are willing to defend porn and peoples right to do and watch it, yet often there is talk, both in pro and anti circles, about the "bad porn", or the porn that they see something really wrong with, the mass produced gonzo that flows from San Fernando...you know, that not hip, not artsy, not whatever porn with the rough sex and women with implants and lots of make up with the teenaged level impulse control issue language...that crap that more highbrow porn fans look down upon....
You know, the stuff that I watch. Higher budget slicker versions of what I do. The stuff that is a real and pretty accurate reflection of my own sex life and my own sexual fantasies. The porn I like. And it causes a gal to wonder. The porn that a lot of people, both pro and anti, would like to do away with and have such issue with is often what I'm watching. And no, I don't mean "rape porn"...I am not into lack of consent-even a seriously protrayed lack of consent, and no, I don't like Max Hardcore or Lizzie Borden either, but even just that subset of gonzo that really is the rough stuff...you know, the films Bob watches cringing all the way? The stuff in the Weelocke Slide Show? The stuff in the sidebar links over there? Ayep. That would be my kinda porn. Evil Angel makes some of my favorite stuff, and yeah, I had a membership to the now defunct and no longer filming Meatholes site. I admit it. Some of that was even way over the top for me, but not all of it. Nope, not at all.
And it got me thinking about porn viewer strata. I am a female porn viewer, who admits it freely (not as rare as you might think, but not totally common, either), while I know other such women, and they too are picky about their porn...we aren't watching the same stuff. Most women porn viewers I know are into real lesbian porn, fem domme, gay male porn, or Vivid style couples films. That's cool. I suspect if I were a lesbian I would want to watch real lesbian porn. I can watch fem domme and appreciate the skill of the session, the outfits, her assertiveness and how she pulls off her dominant vibe- the mental and the artistry of it all. I can find two guys making out and having sex somewhat "sexy", and I can watch two nice looking hetero people going at it and find it erotic. It's cool, I can see why people dig it, it's just not my thing. My thing is made by folks like Belladonna and John Stagliano and Rocco Seffredi, Erik Everhard and Mark Alias Zane. Mr. E, while amid a group of friends, mentioned my porn collection and ears perked up and he said "No, trust me, a lot of it is like a car crash, you're horrified but you just can't look away." And sure, he watches a lot of it too, but I suspect...well, actually I know, that he personally is more of a Vivid man, even an alt porn/ more realistic person kinda guy, but he watches what I like because I like it, and he's become used to it.
So yeah, sometimes I do wonder, is it just me? Am I one of, oh, 5 women on the face of the earth who really digs this stuff? Would even the other into porn people, or ambivilent towards, do away with what it is I like, given the chance? Because it is what I like that I see even my fellow pornies complaining about, and I wonder. I mean, I note and remember each time folks from my own Yay Team Porn Blog roll go off on something that I get off on, and I wonder...
Meh, discuss at will. This is what I get for being someone who worked til 2 am but was up, via whatever reasons, by 6 am. Damn my internal clock.
35 comments:
Quoting the Henchwoman:
[...] Which caused me to think of my book collection, or rather my recently read and to read pile of books stacked up on my nightstand, which includes Bob's Getting off (and can I tell you that even the cover of that one freaks me out?)... [...]
Oh, dear Lord, don't get me started on that freakin' book cover....nothing screams, "I'm a 45 year old man obsessed with porn and watching young boys jerking off...but that's OK because I want to protect them from their own evil lusts" quite like that outrage of a cover. Hell, you can't even tell if the poor guy is really coming or breaking off a bowel movement.
My own tastes in porn usually fall within the more classical mainstream straight "fuck and suck" variety, with a special emphasis on showing actual female pleasure and mutual consent and respect. I can respect more avant garte brands like alt.porn or "feminist porn" if it doesn't get too soft and boring (nobody likes a soft dick, anyway), particularly if the performers are as intellegent and mouthy as they are sexy and enthusiastic. (Dana DeArmond is my new crush object, for that very reason.) Otherwise, I'm in it to see the women who really like to get off.
So yeah, sometimes I do wonder, is it just me? Am I one of, oh, 5 women on the face of the earth who really digs this stuff? Would even the other into porn people, or ambivilent towards, do away with what it is I like, given the chance? Because it is what I like that I see even my fellow pornies complaining about, and I wonder. I mean, I note and remember each time folks from my own Yay Team Porn Blog roll go off on something that I get off on, and I wonder...
Personally, what you like shouldn't be a real issue of concern with real sex-pos and pro-porn folk, because the main part of being sex-positive is the willingness to accept other people's sexual interests and tastes, even if it personally squicks you...provided that mutual consent and mutual respect and mutual pleasure hold true. I think that what you describe, Ren, is more about people confusing their own personal asthetic tastes with universal truths that should apply to all people all the time. What turns me on sometimes won't be such a turn on to other folk, and so on.
But, there's such an urge for sex rads and progressive sex-pos folk to use the sexual media as a stepping stone to reflect and promote their political and social views; as a means of using the media to illicit progressive social change. I support such a move, of course, being a like minded progressive politically; but I'm not going to deny the main purpose of sexual media is to get people off...and sometimes an overtly political message might tend to get in the way of the connection between mind and the genitals.
But like you said: it's your blog, and your brain; you have your tastes and they have theirs. To each his or her own.
Anthony
You enjoy rough sex because you have built up a lot of emotional armor - particularly from your childhood. Therefore, you need higher stimuli to feel anything through that. It's actually your subconscious way of attempting to break through that armor. Childhood hurt being some of the deepest and most stubborn.
It doesn't make you sick in a moral sense per se, just emotionally sick. Which is why moral judgements are really misapplied here. "S&M" is not really from "depravity" - just a crude attempt at self-healing.
When you have thick shells - it feels gooood to beat on it! Whereas when you don't, it only hurts! Which is what Jensen doesn't understand - the root cause between such differences in the spectrum of sexual preference. And that these root causes are legit and so people really do have different sexual thresholds and pleasure zones of sensitivity based on their emotional health.
This society as a whole just still doesn't know how to directly & effectively release their deep pain. So, most transfer it to something else, self-medicate and/or project it onto larger political causes. Unfortunately, those indirect methods usually only feed the fire...instead of extinguish it.
And as this armor builds up generation after generation...you will find the need for higher stimuli increasing as a whole with each one. Because people are becoming just dead and numb inside.
So, high sexual thresholds are just a symptom of far deeper personal and cultural problems here. But they in themselves are not really "a problem," per se. Jensen is only seeing others through his own eyes, not theirs...
(does groucho marx face)
funny, I don't FEEL emotionally sick...
I useta like ZFX, back in the day.
I thought they had creative ways to show tight tie-up scenes AND penetration at the same time. monster plants, space aliens - fun.
Byrd - why does we have to have a reason to like what she likes? and why does that reason always have to be all about how defective and damaged we all are?
do football players have to have a reason why they like crashing into each other? or boxers have to have a reason why they like bashing heads? or police officers or ski jumpers or wrestlers or...
jeez, byrd, you're just as bad as the antipornradfems.
Oh the blocks are subconscious by now.
Intellectually, you may well be over them. You've dealt and coped on the surface. But, that doesn't mean they still aren't lodged deep in your persona and influencing you subconsciously. In fact, they are.
Why do you think you have this deep misanthropy and dark side? Why do you love rough sex? Simply "because?" No, there is a reason for everything...and you are actually well-aware of them. But, that doesn't mean you have actually released them.
If you ever have a genuine catharsis one day, you will be surprised to see all that sorrow that was still stored in there like a battery when it finally comes out.
"So yeah, sometimes I do wonder, is it just me? Am I one of, oh, 5 women on the face of the earth who really digs this stuff?" - Ren
i'd say i'm one of the five. i think, during the history of this blog, you've done a pretty good job of defining what "this stuff" is and i dig it.
but the amount of time i spend watching porn is fairly minimal; i'll sit down for a good jill-off with porn about once a week. and my partner and i don't always participate in the activities i like to watch. we have our own version of gonzo fucking that is just fine for us, thank you very much.
but it’s tough in these here interwebs. people have agendas and will defend them to the death with rigidity unseen even in the best porno flick. i think you'll find my attitude much more common in real life – some things I like, some things I don’t. and you'll also find people more willing to discuss the nuances of specific acts and their feelings about the same.
for example, i can take a lot of (what could be called)violence in my porn and in my personal sex life but i cannot stand to see a woman get slapped in the face and would break my partner's cock off if he tried to do that to me. yet i have no problem with him wrapping both of his hands around my neck as i cum.
funny how that works, complex brains and that.
I've never commented here before but thought I'd offer some support by saying that you named some of my favorite pornographers - Belladonna, Stagliano, Rocco.
I love the rough stuff. And I'm a girl. And I'm pretty sure I'm not emotionally sick.
"S&M" is not really from "depravity" - just a crude attempt at self-healing.
Try saying that on any BDSM forum/blog and watch all the supposedly meek, damaged, weak submissive women be the first to say (very loudly) "That's not me!"
Interesting question. I would imagine the female customers for rough porn are substantially fewer than the male, but not de minimus. I haven't encountered any, but maybe because I haven't discussed it openly with enough women.
"Would even the other into porn people, or ambivalent towards, do away with what it is I like, given the chance?"
I'm not in favor of bans, more in favor of ways to implement age restrictions. I don't really know enough about the genre to say, but if the roughness were predominantly directed towards the women, I would find it problematic but again wouldn't ban it. If it's equally or close to equally distributed, then no harm no foul.
I'm posting this anonymously. I'm a feminist blogger (my blog's not very popular or rad fem at all, and links to yours). The kind of porn I watch is the kind kink.com makes. BDSM with the woman on the bottom. I like rough stuff- gagging, slapping, humiliation. It's what I like to watch, and what I like to have in my sex life.
I don't want people to find this comment and know what kind of porn I like to watch or what kind of sex I like to have.
Believe it or not, my (now deceased) mother liked porn. If she'd had the internet (she never learned how to use it and was very intimidated by computers) and all the choices that go with it, she'd have loved it...but that's why I don't know which "market" she would have fit into.
The books she had (photos too) were pretty hard-core, violent stuff, which is what I think she would have liked to see. She often described being the only woman in some nasty-ass old porn theatre, the kind Travis took Cybill Shephard to in TAXI DRIVER (and tries to convince her that "lots of couples come here!"). She would never go by herself, though, but if a date of hers wanted to go, she was all for it.
Probably why I've never been able to get TOO upset about it. ;)
You enjoy rough sex because you have built up a lot of emotional armor - particularly from your childhood. Therefore, you need higher stimuli to feel anything through that. It's actually your subconscious way of attempting to break through that armor. Childhood hurt being some of the deepest and most stubborn.
Are you a shrink, or do you just play one on TV?
It doesn't make you sick in a moral sense per se, just emotionally sick.
Why would it do that?
Which is why moral judgements are really misapplied here.
You just applied one, though.
"S&M" is not really from "depravity" - just a crude attempt at self-healing.
Prove it.
When you have thick shells - it feels gooood to beat on it! Whereas when you don't, it only hurts! Which is what Jensen doesn't understand - the root cause between such differences in the spectrum of sexual preference. And that these root causes are legit and so people really do have different sexual thresholds and pleasure zones of sensitivity based on their emotional health.
I thought you just said it made you sick? You are contradicting yourself.
This society as a whole just still doesn't know how to directly & effectively release their deep pain.
Of course it does. Look around, dude.
We're AT WAR, in case you haven't been paying attention.
So, most transfer it to something else, self-medicate and/or project it onto larger political causes.
Are you a conservative? Because that's what they say, too. They are about preserving the status quo, so they never include themselves in that... only people who want RADICAL CHANGE get this analysis.
Unfortunately, those indirect methods usually only feed the fire...instead of extinguish it.
Prove that, too, while you're there.
And as this armor builds up generation after generation...you will find the need for higher stimuli increasing as a whole with each one. Because people are becoming just dead and numb inside.
This sounds like AA bullshit, which I am thinking about writing a whole post about, but then I get intimidated ... I might get sobriety trolls!
Looks like one found you, too, Ren. ;)
So, high sexual thresholds are just a symptom of far deeper personal and cultural problems here.
In Hinduism they are a sign of being more spiritual and ABOVE the material world. I call Western bias!
But they in themselves are not really "a problem," per se. Jensen is only seeing others through his own eyes, not theirs...
As you are, too.
Hey Ren, I have similar sexual preferences to you (other than the 8 cocks at a time - 1 will usually do, if that), but the spitting, pissing, name calling, slapping .. mmmm. And I watch very similar porn, and a whole lot more besides. I can think of a whole load of BDSM women who do, too. Wouldn't do away with it. I'd just want to know that everything was done ethically (safe sex, contracts, fair pay, etc - basically, I wish there was some kind of 'Fair Trade' symbol, or something, on these sites). And I've heard Max Hardcore, for instance, doesn't do things ethically. I'd do away with that. And I'd very much like it if Brits like Anna Span, who makes pornography 'for women' (not my taste, but I respect and dig her) was able to get her stuff past the BBFC. It doesn't, because it contains erect penises, which aren't allowed. Yet full genital shots are. I like looking at big hard cocks!
*snort* Dr. Byrdeye, I presume...aren't you glad you asked?...
BTW, I just blogged about "missing internet porn star" Emily Sander. I think these bad attitudes lead to BAD SHIT, which is why I was a bit rough with Byrdeye.
I'm noticing a subtle "she deserved it" subtext to the news coverage...
Would even the other into porn people, or ambivilent towards, do away with what it is I like, given the chance?
Why does it matter if they don't like it or complain about it, even if you like it? After all, you don't like Max Hardcore, but plenty -- plenty -- of people do. So what?
The only thing that should cause concern is if they want to ban it. Do they?
I don't. I just want community standards -- and therefore community tastes -- to change. How to go about doing that is a different issue altogether.
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me personally, I would not like to do away with any of the porn you mention. Instead, I would just like to see more variety and choices offered to consumers. And I think that slowly but surely, that's what we're seeing, with the growing numbers of independent, queer, alt, and yes even so-called "women-friendly" porn directors and companies.
Also, I think too many people use the term gonzo without understanding what it really means. Like I mentioned on my blog when I posted my review of Tristan Taormino's Chemistry 3 (which won an AVN award for best gonzo), all gonzo REALLY means is it lacks a plot and the viewer can feel like they are up in the action. It comes from HST's gonzo journalism term.
Daisydeadhead - I see you live up to your name.
And I won't waste time relieving you of your massive arrogance & ignorance. I'm sure you have a busy schedule of tending cats somewhere.
That is all. :)
And I won't waste time relieving you of your massive arrogance & ignorance. I'm sure you have a busy schedule of tending cats somewhere.
Dudeliness, you're the one blathering about a bunch of shit you can't prove. If you choose to believe myth instead of facts, that's your choice, but please don't accuse ME of "ignorance" for choosing to believe facts instead of stereotypes and prejudices. I back up what I say. Can you?
I see you live up to your name.
What a nice thing to say. I try mightily to live up to the tolerant and egalitarian standard of Deadheads everywhere, but I often fail. ;)
Okay, everyone please hang on for a moment...I can't ask Byrd to be civil without asking everyone else to be civil, you know? So I'm asking everyone to be civil, okay? If I change my mind on the whole civil thing, I will let you know.
Moving on...
Byrd- I won't deny that part of the reason I dig rough sex is emotional and mental, hell, I've discussed that before. I don't think its as deep and whatnot as you seem to, but yeah, there is absolutely a mental/emotional level to it. Stress relief and an outlet for aggression, most certainly. However, there are physical reasons as well, and if I have to go TMI on that I will...one, I have vertually no senseation in my clit, so penetration...the hard kind...is what works to get me off, and just physically in general I am not as senseative as a lot of folk are...back rubs have to be hard for me to feel them, I'm not tickelish, tempatures have to be pretty extreme (hot or cold) for me to really notice them...hell, I keep my hot tub set at 109 degrees in the summer. In short, I require more intense physical sensations than other people, and yep, sure enough, I thing that probably has something to do with it too.
And yep, sure enough, we all wear armor of sorts. Every last one of us, even if we deny it. I don't deny it. I have problems trusting people, but you know, I'm working on that. Not always easy, but I'm working on it. I'd say finally being able to marry the guy I've been with for so long was a big step. And yep, I have rage issues, but I work on that too, and truthfully, I'm lightyears better than I used to be. Scary thought, I know, but true. I went for several years without ever even talking to people unless I absolutely had to, because all I wanted to do no matter what they were saying was hit them. Past that now. Getting through college did a lot for me as far as exercising the demons goes, but you know what?
I am not expecting some great break or catharisis. I'm really not. I'm not even certain it's possible, warrented, needed, or that there are things there that even exist... Nor do I want one. Working through things slowly is probably far healthier for me, so that's the way I roll. I mean, honestly, me having a spontanious unexpected catharisis or something could actually be really, really bad. But I don't think it will happen, because I don't honestly think there is something that...whatever...in there that would spawn such a thing.
As for misanthropy and a dark side? Oh Byrd, WE ALL have a good does of that. I'm just a lot more honest about it than most folk are. I have it, you have it, every Joe and Jane in the world has it....and anyone who denies it is either a liar or really delluded.
So yeah, I am not going to say that there is no mental/emotional groove to my love of the rough sex, but there is also a lot more to it than that, and if anyone is expecting some amazing personal revelation or change out of me regarding it...well, I wouldn't hold your breath.
Ren - yes mileage will vary, but nearly everybody has a lot of unreleased pain. Of course, I've had a lot myself too. It's probably even "normal" these days...
But, subconscious stuff does lie deep and doesn't just go away on its own. Or stop influencing your mentality and behavior.
An armored person does not feel their armor as such. Reich believed that mind-body work is necessary for people to rid themselves of this armor.
In fact, you don't have to worry about a "spontaneous catharsis." More likely, it would take a lot of deliberate and advanced work to remove it all. Such things are ENTIRELY possible. And afterwards, you may find you've lost a lot of your tolerance for pain and regained sensitivity.
But no, I'm not holding my breath. It's entirely up to you. I'm just making observations here. I'm not here to condemn you, or enable your ills like a hero-worshipping sycophant. Just to call it like I see it and toss my dos centavos in the jukebox.
I think at a certain point, it's pointless and impossible to try to describe *why* we like certain kinds of sex and certain sexual acts, dislike others, and are neutral about others. It's about as productive as me trying to argue with someone who really likes wine, whereas to me all wine tastes gross. But nobody starts with an armchair psych routine about how so-and-so likes wine because of their mental and emotional issues, or maybe this time around it's that I *don't* like wine because of *my* issues... blah blah blah...
"why does we have to have a reason to like what she likes? and why does that reason always have to be all about how defective and damaged we all are?"
Actually, understanding the root of your dysfunction helps you and others to better deal with it.
Her man shouldn't feel guilty or restrained about giving it to her rough and hard. And she shouldn't feel guilty or "morally deviant" either about her lack of sensitivity and need for higher stimuli. It's all just the result of a simple psychosomatic process.
As opposed to the Jensenite moral condemnations or sycophantic enabling on here. Both of which miss the mark.
So, she now knows how she could theoretically fix her likely underlying dysfunction...should she ever decide and choose to. Or if not, just keep managing the problem as she is.
Mr. E rarely has problems giving me what I want.
And I like what I like, so, I am in no rush to change anything, other than do MORE of it.
Sidebar: ANony and others...it is good to hear I am not the only woman out there who likes the rough porn....
muwhahaha, we are not legion, but hey, its a start!
As opposed to the Jensenite moral condemnations or sycophantic enabling on here. Both of which miss the mark.
Over at my blog you said:
Sweet little girls don't do porn and pick-up slugs in bars. I'm sure that's just the tip of the iceberg too. Almost guaranteed she was a party ho who loved to drug it up as well.
Any "Jensenite moral condemnations" there, ya think?
You contradict yourself with every word out of your confused mouth. Try thinking with only one of your heads at a time, it's easier.
^ That wasn't a condemnation, but an observation.
If a girl is not a "sweet little girl," she should not be falsely advertised as one.
You hear the same shyt when a meek-looking serial killer gets busted..."oh my, he was such a sweet young man!"
What a joke!
Yeah Daisy, that irked me seriously too, thanks. Now granted, "Sweet" is probably never a word anyone is going to use to describe me, and I really am okay with that...but I've never had a huge thing for the bad boys...sure, I have a look that I like (athletic), but sorry, guys with records and substance abuse problems and 5 kids by different women are not my thing. Nor do I drug it up and party all the time. But yeah, I have picked up a guy in a bar, and I do porn, so what? Like there aren't guys out there doing the same thing? Like anyone, who does porn or not, parties or not, does drugs or not, whatever whatever DESERVES to "end up missing?"
I think not.
And there is a lot more to moral character than keeping ones legs closed, for the record and all.
Byrd:
A person can be sweet and do porn. The gal is what? 5'3"? That's little. And well, she is female...hence, girl.
Ren, I've said it before- I think you're wired that way, just like some are wired for musical talent and some for disliking broccoli. Just because I'm NOT wired that way doesn't automaically translate that I think you're flawed. I think Byrd, in all his wisdom and education, is forgetting that each brain is unique in very discreet ways.
I've commented here before, but not for quite some time. I'll remain anony. as I don't care to get involved personally.
I simply wanted to delurk (so to speak) to state that it's a terrible shame that the comment threads on this blog have to so often be totally defiled by Byrdeye. The man is a pure misogynist if ever one did walk the earth. It would sincerely be wonderful to be able to read through the comment section on this blog without having to worry about slamming into a huge heaping pile of byrdshit.
Most Recent Anonymous...if you are too afraid to even use your log in, I'm afraid I can't take your request too seriously. I will get rid of Byrd when I'm of the mind to do so.
Wasn't requesting that you get rid of him...I was simply stating my feelings. You can, of course, allow anyone you wish to comment on your blog. As for my login, I could make myself known. I just really don't want to get directly involved in the great online porn debates any longer. I continue to read this blog because I have a high degree of respect for you. With that being said, I hope you can understand that I have valid reasons for remaining anonymous. Reasons that don't include cowardice.
Have a good evening, Ren.
'Nony:
Okay, that is reasonable....could you pick A Name though? Sorry, the fake boob debate part one billion has me in a shitty mood.
yeah, you can log in by clicking the "nickname" bubble and then write whatever pseud you like, doesn't have to be the one you normally use, no link. it's just helpful to distinguish oneself from any other nonnies that come along.
that said...well, i've already said what i think of guano's presence here and probably will again, but RE dinna like being told what to do, she believes in free speech even for ass gum like this in her own space, so...so be it.
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