Wednesday, January 16, 2008

GAH!!!! @&$@)!)!!!!

snarl

Remind me to make up an argument about sex work bingo card.
Posted by Renegade Evolution at 8:04 AM
Labels: ,

35 comments:

Sylvia/M said...

Just because someone says it’s his/her CHOICE to be a bank robber, a terrorist, a homicidal killer, a prostitute, a porn industry worker….

Oh Ren, according to this guy you keep wonderful company; I say send some of them to visit his house. :)

8:14 AM
Renegade Evolution said...

"Hey, Yuri, Ivan..."

Dammit, it never works. Yuri is way too addicted to WoW...

8:19 AM
Amber said...

YES!! I cannot wait to see that bingo card!

And, holy shit. "Porn industry worker" == "terrorist." Huh! You learn something new every day!

10:12 AM
Amber said...

Did I mention, this is why I *do not* read the "big" blogs anymore. My head just can't take anymore pounding.

10:13 AM
CrackerLilo said...

Clearly that so needs to be done!

Someone needs to teach that idiot the concept of "consent."

11:50 AM
Anthony Kennerson said...

Yup....good old Bob Herbert, doing his best Bob Jensen impression again.

Maybe he should just retire and become Heart's Vice Presidential candidate.....he certainly plays the part well.

I mean, comparing sex workers and porn industry workers to terrorists and homocidal killers and bank robbers?!?!?! Gee, Bob, why not go all the way and say that sex work is really the next terrorist threat???

WOW. And they complain about Bill Kristol getting a NYT column.


Anthony

11:58 AM
Vanessa said...

Shorter Gayle: If only we could talk *about* sex workers without having to talk *to* sex workers!

12:26 PM
Elaine Vigneault said...

Ugh. Herbert is sooooo off. He's just such a shallow thinker. Argh.

12:43 PM
Drakyn said...

The stupid, it just keeps getting worse and worse...
"when I hear a woman telling me how much she loves letting 8 guys fuck her in a 3 hour time span, I say bullshit. BULLSHIT."

1:41 PM
kactus said...

Why are you all engaging Ren in this? Don't you know she's like super-privileged cuz she's got a blog and all? So she doesn't know anything?

I completely lost my temper over there. It doesn't happen often but it's a fine thing to see.

I call it therapy.

2:22 PM
evil_fizz said...

I mean, comparing sex workers and porn industry workers to terrorists and homocidal killers and bank robbers?!?!?! Gee, Bob, why not go all the way and say that sex work is really the next terrorist threat???

That would be a random commenter at Feministe, not Bob Herbert.

2:29 PM
Amber said...

The stupid, it just keeps getting worse and worse...
"when I hear a woman telling me how much she loves letting 8 guys fuck her in a 3 hour time span, I say bullshit. BULLSHIT."

*shrug*
To that, I respond:
Say whatever you want, sweetums; I'll just keep on enjoying my hot, consensual gangbangs.

2:46 PM
annalouise said...

That whole discussion makes me want to spit fire. ug.
I really want people to point to some point in that thread where anybody said that sex work was a fun, empowering, good-time of a career? what's that? the sound of crickets.
I don't believe that any of those people give an everloving shit about trafficked women, street prostitutes, child sex slaves or any of it. Those women exist only in abstractions that can be used to justify their slut-bashing.
Kactus sure brings the wisdom though.

3:31 PM
buggle said...

Yep, I said that drakyn. And I stand by it. I'm not allowed to have an opinion though, I guess, because I don't have sex for money. I think it's bullshit, yes I do.

I agree Amber, I get frustrated reading these blogs that just do not seem to get it! Gak. I know you are talking from the opposite perspective, but I feel much the same way. So tired of people defending men's rights to fuck women. Blah.

3:43 PM
buggle said...

Oh, never mind. Reading through your blog, I get it. I get it. Never mind. No need to publish my comment. Really no point. You've got it all figured out! Wowzah!

3:46 PM
Renegade Evolution said...

Buggle: I publish almost everything...sorry.

Kactus: I'm thrilled you lost your temper.

4:05 PM
Vanessa said...

Yes, kactus, you losing your temper is a thing of beauty!

4:12 PM
Anthony Kennerson said...

Evil_Fizz: I do stand corrected.

Considering some of the stuff that Herbert has previously written in his NYT column dismissing the actual experiences of sex workers who don't exactly follow his "super victimmzed" memes, I can assume that that sentiment does reflect his own views as well.


Buggle: Nobody there ever questioned your right to have your opinion in the first place..so why bring that nonsense here???

It's not about "defending men's right to fuck women" (or women's right to get paid to fuck men and women, for that matter); it's about simple respect for people's experiences.

And as Ren says, she publishes everybody who comments....so spare the "censorship" nonsense. At least she doesn't threaten those who oppose her views with outing.....which is more than I can say for Gayle and her crew.


Anthony

4:38 PM
Octogalore said...

"So tired of people defending men's rights to fuck women. Blah."

Buggle, it's really amazing how this is what you're distilling from Ren's, Kactus, my and others' comments. Isn't it clear that what's being defended is women's rights to choose their work? Nobody here is defending the demand. That's a constant, believe it or not.

Why do you believe that, in contrast to bank robbery, terrorism, or homicide, voluntary participation in sex work creates harm? Do you feel that if all the voluntary sex workers opted out, the demand would just shrivel up and die? If so, can you let me know the number of your pharmacy?

Sex as an industry isn't going anywhere. The most constructive activity to better the lives of the women who indeed are the industry's victims is working to help those out who want out (which some here are involved in doing, like your hostess), and to improve conditions and institute rights for those who don't have other ready alternatives but want a better way of life on the job. Simply throwing up ones arms and decrying the whole thing is pretty much useless, and what's more, solipsistic.

4:48 PM
Amber said...

So tired of people defending men's rights to fuck women.

Excuse me?

...

You know what, I'm sorry. I must be taking crazy pills today. I've read a whole lotta ass-out weirdness on blogs today (note, blogs I *told* myself I needed to *avoid* - it's obvious how that's going) and surely it all can't seem so nonsensical just because I took a bunch of Tylenol PM last night. That stuff doesn't linger for 16 hours... right?

To quote Hunter S. Thompson... "Jesus creeping shit! We've wandered into a time capsule."

4:54 PM
Amber said...

Even in my apparent haze, though, I am LOVING kactus's rage!

4:56 PM
Nick Kiddle said...

I liked whoever brought up marriage. Marriage has historically been another system whereby women's bodies are owned, bought, sold etc, but most feminists can agree that marriage is susceptible to fixing. But somehow sex work is broken beyond repair.

5:20 PM
Nick Kiddle said...

re: men's right to fuck women, I can kind of see what buggle is getting at, because if men are convinced they do have this right, prostitution isn't going to do anything to set them straight. But neither is someone like me, who pretty much sleeps with anyone who expresses the right degree of interest. So I guess my existence is also support for "men's right to fuck women".

5:24 PM
EthylBenzene said...

Head, meet wall. Please commence banging against at will.

Gods, is it me, or have I read that thread before? Yeesh. It's like a fucking sing-along.

Hang in there, Ren, fight the good fight.

Amber -- I try so hard to stay away from the "big" blogs, but someone I enjoy reading always links back there and the cycle starts all over again. Sigh. And here I thought I was only a masochist in the bedroom.

5:30 PM
Drakyn said...

You're obviously allowed to have an opinion Buggle.
And I'm allowed to think it's incredibly sexist and demeaning for you the think that any woman (men too, or are all men immoral animals?) who fucks multiple men a day is either lying or deluded when she says she likes it.

7:55 PM
Jill said...

Ugh, I know, I'm sorry... I suspected the conversation would happen, but I didn't think it would ge that out of control. I've been away from the computer all day, but I just stepped in and attempted to regulate. Hopefully it works.

8:56 PM
Candy said...

Forget about a man's rights to fuck women...what about a women's right to fuck on her own terms?

Isn't that the important thing? That sex work happens on the terms of the sex worker? In fact, that sex- for money or not- happens on the terms of both (or more) parties involved?

It's not about men's rights, buggle.

12:42 AM
belledame222 said...

see, prostitution is bad, mkay. We know this, because there are laws against it. Same as with murder and robbery and terrorism. Witness my moral sophistication! And also political astuteness!

3:41 AM
belledame222 said...

oohhhhh, christ, gayle, say no more.

3:44 AM
Amber said...

Forget about a man's rights to fuck women...what about a women's right to fuck on her own terms?

HELLO.

Oh, but no, it's all about TEH MENZ!!1!1 How could it be about anything else??

7:19 AM
Blackamazon said...

THat made my brain bleed it made my brain bleed

7:57 AM
Anthony Kennerson said...

Remember when that whole thing was about Hillary Clinton getting no love because she was a woman???

Well..now it's degenerated into this:

[from Sam Berg]
If there’s one thing feminists know for sure it’s that rape victims are loose-lipped masochists who simply love telling strangers all the excruciating details of their rapes, and this is why all research done on prostitution has come to the same “it is men paying to rape” conclusion. Raped prostitution survivors can’t stop flapping their big yaps about being raped to all listeners while unraped, content and privileged sex workers are simply too terrified to speak up about how content they are, as this thread demonstrates.

Maybe if the women and girls raped in prostitution weren’t always skipping off to happily blabbermouth their research-skewing sob stories about being raped to police officers, social workers, prostitution researchers and feminists they might be better represented in this thread.

[....]

Please try to refrain from blaming feminists when men rape and murder prostituted women. For example, the “prohibitionist feminist model” never raped one single sex worker; that would be the johns whose rights to stick their penises inside some woman any time they desire you are inexplicably defending as some kind of beneficial poverty-assistance program. Battered women and domestic violence experts know very well how violent men get more violent when they feel they are losing control of their victims, and since prostitution is violence against women it is unsurprising that johns exhibit the same pattern of increased violence upon having their ownership of women challenged.

I can hear Ginmar and Stormcloud waiting in the wings now to intervene in how the "sex pox" is attempting to shut "feminists" like Sam, Gayle, and Bob Herbert up.....and how Ren is once again trying to shout them down. Trust me, it's coming soon.


Anthony

12:23 PM
DJ Carson D said...

Sometimes I'm really glad I have a day job... I only read about 10% of that. Couldn't help but notice the good questions wern't getting answered. Or worse, they were being answered with generalities with absolutely no substance. This is what I picked up:

"We should put and end to prostitution."
"Okay, how do we do that?"
"We eliminate the demand."
"..."

Yeah. Great apporch. o___O

10:12 PM
hexyhex said...

I am really glad I didn't see that thread earlier.

*fumes*

Can I just say I fucking hate that "if you blog, you're privileged" argument?

I work with a fuckload of sex workers, some much more well off than me and some struggling quite a bit, who don't blog. Why? Because they have no interest in doing so! The percentage of bloggers amongst any group of people that isn't "people who blog" is minimal.

There are also a vast array of blogs out there (say, the homeless guy http://thehomelessguy.wordpress.com/) where people blog specifically about poverty and related issues. But as soon as a ex worker touches a keyboard, they've sacrificed their right to be heard.

Fuck that.

1:15 AM
Renegade Evolution said...

Hexy...and you know what so many of them forget...with the privilege and all?


ALL THIS CAN BE USED IN A US COURT OF LAW AGAINST ME.

All of it.

Not like I HAVEN"T been BLACKMAILED.

I get raped? You think I stand a fucking chance in HELL? Even if I am beat to shit?

No.

I don't. Cause I;m a whore who likes rough sex.

It takes SToNES to do this.

Most sex workers DON'T want to take that chance.

1:32 AM

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