To: All Sex-Poz Scum
Re: We're such assholes!
Memo. This just in, wow, we really are scum, and dumb, and mean, and dirty.
Predictable much? Oh, and I'm the one with the obsession. Well, perhaps a grim fascination.
See you at the orgy, all!
Ms. Plastic Tits, aka
The Monster in High Heels
Henchwoman and Sick Patriarchy Fucker
Scum, Inc.
Wednesday, February 06, 2008
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71 comments:
Well of course it's fucking predictable: she all but waved a red flag at you and whoever else in that thread and/or crossed what passes for her consciousness.
--oh, weak. yes, Gr, I needed a diploma to tell you you're being a big fucking angry baby and everyone's beyond sick of it. p.s. the tit fetish: getting old. Just like you.
oh, and Gr? Actually, I knew big words even before I went to college. Learned 'em at home, from books and parents who valued such things. As did their parents, and theirs before them, even the ones who didn't go to bloody college or even secondary school. And, see, my parents love me. Sorry yours apparently didn't, but can't say as I blame 'em either. Who would?
Education. Fucking swallowing pride and learning something new, as opposed to just kicking and outscreaming anyone who apparently knows something they don't. My people, we don't tend to trust such people, no matter what flag they're saluting, no matter which ideology they're using to justify their hate.
Ms Plastic Tits? Wow, Ginmar doesn't have any shame over stealing insults from LARRY FUCKING FLYNT????????????
Am I allowed to call her a trained assassin and war criminal on your blog, Ren? I know you've been NICE AND PRINCIPLED AND PATRIOTIC, telling me not to, and I've been a good girl, but what about now?? Pretty please?
Here is what I wanna know:
How can someone justify 16 years of VOLUNTARY PARTICIPATION in the most patriarchal institution IN THE WORLD, participating in implicit violence against women (albeit, dark women that don't look like her, which is why I presume she doesn't MENTION THEM EVER) and then hold yourself up as some sterling example of radical feminism, calling other women names? Does she understand that "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" and all that? Apparently not, because I wonder how war criminals can even LIVE WITH THEMSELVES, much less muster the wherewithal to attack other people's morality.
Didn't she IMPLEMENT and MAKE OPERATIONAL the oppression of the Iraqis by the Americans? How does she justify CHOOSING this line of work? She had 16 years to change her mind about the working directly for the white-supremacist, imperialist patriarchy and yet, she must have enjoyed all that mayhem too much to quit. (We can SEE for ourselves how much she relished mayhem.) Nope, Ginmar is still bragging about the skills and foreign languages they provided her. How is that different from being proud of plastic tits? Well, plastic tits are 1) not paid for by the govt and 2) do not wound, kill, maim, destroy, eviscerate human beings, as soldiers have been known to do, on occasion.
Ginmar claims she was an INTERROGATOR and speaks many languages, which I believe is means she was AN OFFICER in the US MILITARY. If so, she went to college, or had the opportunity to do so (after 16 years!), so WTF is she attacking "college girls" for? Did she attend Officer Candidate school, the military equivalent of college? If so, she let the GOVERNMENT pay for her education (meaning, we all did), while she actually has the nads to criticize someone like you, who paid for their own education themselves.
And so she was an INTERROGATOR, she proudly brags online, using the INSTITUTIONAL PATRIARCHAL POWER OF THE US MILITARY to hurt people if they didn't comply ands tell her what the MILITARY wanted to know. Did she torture anyone? She certainly has the personality for it. I mean, the fact that she BRAGS about it at every turn, should tell you what kind of sadist this is.
At least, we can see what this does to the people who willingly participate (as Ginmar likes to remind everyone 24/7 that she did). They barely qualify as human when they are done.
If only they wouldn't continue to impersonate humans online.
Dude, that's a Flynt line? Hell, I didn't even know that. HAHAHAH! SUCH FEMINISM.
Oh, the sexism of the military has been pointed out to her...
shrug, I've known career soldiers who aren't like...that.
interrogators, though...well.
but yes, I love how that's mostly something we're supposed to feel sympathy and horror on -her- account, her stint interrogating for Uncle Sam. Nothing else. Meanwhile: there are sex workers to defend against! And Perky Titted College Girls! Who've never earned more than 7,000 a year! Who won't shovel her snow! And probably embalmed their vaginas as well! Oppressing us all!
Gmar, Feminist Defender Of The Earth.
I did not know that either! priceless.
I think she's supporting H. Clinton for president, if I read her correctly...
didn't Hilary go to college?
the dreaded college?
Daisy, you totally rock. Seriously. I have military people in my family, so I tend to keep my pacifisim quiet out of respect, but damn. None of them is a frothing at the mouth, batshit crazy rabid as she is. Seriously, the woman needs a psychiatric intervention.
Also...what's the problem with women going to college? Isn't that like, one of those goals feminism fought for? Does she really think she's going to convert anyone to her side by insulting them? I just....someone get that woman drugs. Now.
Mrs. Daisy, Sgt. Ginmar didn't voluntarily choose that line of work no matter what she says. A study by Code Pink says that 70.6% of American Soldiers were the products of physically abusive fathers, poverty and uncivilized areas of the country like Atlanta where few choices exist. A recent study suggests that 89.9% of all soldiers want out of the U.S. military. Most soldiers enlisted at the age or 17 or 18 to escape horrible situations or lured from school yards by military officers.
Many report that movies like Rambo play a part in what superior officers expect from them. Many engaged in cops and robbers play in youth and need to reenact such as an adult to reclaim a sense of self.
Officers routinely break down soldiers and 100% report PTSD....[attempt at parody over.]
I'm sure someone has used that rhetorical device on Ginmar before. I love reading your work and your commenters but having to contemplate the stunning lack of self awareness of a Ginmar or a Betty BeatCop makes me physically ill.
Best line on the Ginmar thread you linked (from Ginmar):
"The things some people have the luxury to freak out just astounds me."
And she doesn't even realize how funny she is.
That's Ginmar – always striving to make the already short distance between radical feminist rhetoric and an out-and-out temper tantrum even shorter.
Something tells me you might have some commentary on this one:
http://www.coedmagazine.com/news/5501
This choice quote from Dana S about women (such as Ren) who do sex work when they have other choices:
"There certainly is no reason to take on a job that carries that degree of personal risk and which contributes--let's face it--absolutely nothing to the furtherance of society, that you'd be embarrassed to admit to your family you were doing that for a living, that you'd never tell a future husband about, that you might leave off your resumé.?"
(Emphasis mine)
This from the same thread where Ginmar and company are prattling on about being the real revolutionaries and feminists, mind you.
"I think she's supporting H. Clinton for president, if I read her correctly...
didn't Hilary go to college?
the dreaded college?"
Well, Hillary went to Smith – maybe in The Rules According to Ginmar, going to a women's college earns you a few points that balances out the penalty for having a college education.
Oooo feel the love from a true feminist, ladies!
ARGH the double standards here are fucking despicable. If the women blaming shit that Dana came out with was aimed at anyone else, Ginmar et al would be up in arms. But because it's the evil evil Ren we're all just reading waaaaaay too much into it.
And don't even get me started on the crap male "feminists" like Flewellyn are allowed to get away with providing they're supporting a "good" cause...
Daisy:
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
Well, it's like I said elsewhere:
"Blah blah blah I'm the most oppressed of all, blah blah blah none of you could hack it in the military, blah blah blah non sequitor, blah blah blah ad hominem, blah blah blah black people are mean, blah blah blah Ren said die under a bus, blah blah blah people have gone to college. Love, Ginmar."
Really, at this point who can tell if it's her or Andy Kaufman dressed as her.
Also: for fuck's sake, RE as Jack's "token female friend?" I've always had the impression that if anything, the majority of JG's friends are women.
wait, don't tell me, let me guess: this is also one of the same geniuses who's decided that he's oppressing women with his name.
It is terrific how they manage to justify a full-on rending of him for absolutely no reason at all, though. Anything but question the eternal Gin's judgment.
"friends don't let friends post decompensating."
didn't Hilary go to college?
the dreaded college?
Ivy League, no less.
That's totally different, though.
Reason: stop looking at me funny, you HATE ME AND WANT ME TO DIE, DON'T YOU?? DON'T YOU!?!?!?
Ow. Reading that hurt my head more than reading a fundie blog.
thanks y'all..
HARDLINE? She's fucking LIAR.
daisy...my friend Red (irinia) was in the red army and served as clean up crew in the former nation of Yugoslavia...and is a cold, yet still decent human. My grandfather was soviet land army and spent two years in Bergen-Belsen.
Still great human beings. And guess what, my grandfather, he does not blame the germans...
i have fucking had it with Gin. HAD IT.
SHe was probably petting her cats and watching horror movies tonight.
I was compiling dangerous info on dangerous men for sex workers, and my cat, the dark god, age 14, can't see so well anymore and has problems holding down food.
Oh, and I miss Pheobe.
FUCK HER. FUCK THEM.
They love my violent imagery? THEY have no idea.
Laura: I really dig you, but if you find this really offensive...
make some noise.
"There certainly is no reason to take on a job that carries that degree of personal risk and which contributes--let's face it--absolutely nothing to the furtherance of society, that you'd be embarrassed to admit to your family you were doing that for a living, that you'd never tell a future husband about, that you might leave off your resumé.?"
oh where to begin.
tell us all about the HUZBIN we all are so desperate to ensnare and please, Miz Radical Feminist.
tell us, too, all about how society is not furthered by sexual pleasure, and the possibility that some people might yes actually make a vocation, even an art, out of this, same as for frigging gustatory pleasure or any damn thing else that isn't utilitarian, you Patriarchy-smasher, you.
and of course we all come from the same sort of families, and the worst thing any of us can possibly think of is how horribly hurt and shocked Mum and Dad will be, and they might even cut us out of their will.
which of course, there is no -other- way in which this ever happens, except for a nice little straight girl deciding out of sheer perverseness to do something that she might not want to tell the husband about.
(p.s. asshole. you do know RE's happily married, right?)
at the very least, they'll never share that Jello salad recipe now. and it was a family heirloom, too.
from such feminism, nay, such -radicalism-, I plotz.
loooooooooooser
or Andy Kaufman dressed as her.
...that would explain so much.
RE: so sorry to hear about your cat :(
Awww, poor kitty. Have you tried canned food or ground meat? My mom even fed her cat deli meat when he got old.
I miss my kitty--I still wear her last collar (she was always losing them) sometimes. She was one of those cats that you just can't keep indoors. She would sneak out at all hours of the night when we let the dogs out if we didn't let her out. But if we let her out she'd just sit in the garden and get high off catnip or roll in the dirt.
Daisy:
(albeit, dark women that don't look like her, which is why I presume she doesn't MENTION THEM EVER)
To be fair, she's got a hell of a lot of posts in her LJ about the women she encountered while in Iraq, many of which are thought provoking and insightful. I started reading gin while she was still serving overseas, and that was one of the most common topics she wrote about.
belle, execcpt I did take hell from family, and people, and all that...except for mr e.
and these people talking over here and there about the rich white girl/
Hello, Icon chick on Gin's LJ...YOU SO pass more than I do!
really, really, really unspeakable thoughts and hate right now.
Gee, I was out tonight helping sexworkers...WHAT THE FUCK WERE THEY DOING?
THEY CAN SUCK MY STRAP ON IN
HELL!!!!
okay, er, racist and all that it is....
anyone wonder why I love "300"????
You know, I don't usually follow links over to "rad fem" blogs, I just don't care enough. This time, I head over to see what you're talking about, and the second comment I see on the entry is astonishing filth directed at octogalore for daring to show up and comment on the entry. Following the link over there to Pandagon leads me to a set of comments where Ginmar is amazingly aggressive based off very little as far as I can tell.
Shit damn, that woman is scary. Hearing what y'all had to say about her previously somehow didn't sink in.
Also, in what universe is it acceptable to behave like that toward other people? Did someone not tell her that everyone else on the internet is a real human, or something? I'm fucking baffled.
Also sorry to hear about your cat. Have you taken your kitty to the vet over the not holding down food thing? I don't mean to worry you, but that could be the symptom of something bigger, as I remember with my cat when she got old.
Wow. I am wordless (I am noob to this "feminists war stuff":) .
Oh wait, I have some words for this stuff... I have a question - don't U.S. officers need college education or equivalent?
Ren, yeah I hear that. However, The F Word has a policy of not getting involved in anything that could be seen as a blog war, so obviously I can't post anything directly about ginmar, but I will def flag up Dana's comment and its implications.
Oh, I missed the part about your kitty! My thoughts are with you both.
*sigh*
You know Ren, I started reading your blog before I read or heard of ginmar and all the rest. So I try to think "well, I haven't really read much they've written, so maybe I'm just biased and I should give them a chance?"
But I like you and I agree with you on a lot of stuff and I think you're a decent, if angry, human being and it just pisses me off to no end to see you insulted. Octo too! And belledame! I am pissed! So maybe they don't deserve a whole lot of a chance.
And I'm sorry about Set. My Lab is ten and beginning to not have much enthusiasm for chasing her ball, so I see old age approaching her too. Poor aminals.
"There certainly is no reason to take on a job that carries that degree of personal risk and which contributes--let's face it--absolutely nothing to the furtherance of society, that you'd be embarrassed to admit to your family you were doing that for a living, that you'd never tell a future husband about, that you might leave off your resumé.?"
Oh, fuck, you're right. Note to self: remove that lawyer gig from resume, stat.
I can keep the stripping stuff in there, though, right?
Seriously: "contributes--let's face it--absolutely nothing to the furtherance of society" is a fairly classist concept. It's great to have the wherewithal to have cover ones own and ones family's basic human needs such thaqt one can then look towards wider goals. Not everyone has this luxury, though.
daisy...my friend Red (irinia) was in the red army and served as clean up crew in the former nation of Yugoslavia...and is a cold, yet still decent human. My grandfather was soviet land army and spent two years in Bergen-Belsen.
Still great human beings. And guess what, my grandfather, he does not blame the germans...
Ren, I have military people in my family, too, but I have to say, they weren't so nice. In fact, the reason I probably go off on Ginmar this way is because she reminds me so much of them. In fact, thanks for the Freudian heads up. She is EXACTLY like them: I was in the military, I suffered, I was hurt, yada yada, now I have the right to bash your head in/insult you 24/7 and make your life as shitty as mine is/take 20 Valium and drink myself into a stupor while being supported by someone else and abusing them all the while. My reply to that, then as now, is: fuck you.
All military service is not equal. I think that goes without saying, but I fully understand Just War theory, and this current war doesn't qualify by a long shot. (George Weigel can kiss my ass, too.)
I also fully understand why people go into the military. Are you kidding? I heard about it quite a lot. But you know, war unavoidably involves doing certain things, (like firing at civilians, or people initially perceived as civilians) and many new recruits and enlistees are in total denial about the fact that they will have to do those unpleasant, nasty things. The US military fakes people out; they present themselves as a Job Corps or Educational Opportunity. It's like the Miss America Pageant trying to present itself as a "scholarship contest"--well, sure it is, but in the meantime, there are particular hoops to jump through. So why is everyone so indignant when they actually have to jump through those hoops? American exceptionalism. I forget who it was, possibly the late Col. David Hackworth (whom I admired), who said America's enemies are hungry, dirt-poor, filthy, living in caves and will do anything to win (including readily sacrificing themselves)-- then a buncha naive American corn-fed kids raised on American Idol, video games and McDonalds go blundering in, who thought they were signing up for a college scholarship fund. And we wonder why everything is a mess? He argued this is a recurrent pattern.
My feeling when Ginmar starts up her 2-minutes-hate is the same as it was when I heard veterans in my family judging me or someone else... As a certain famous rabbi said, How will thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye and behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Or as the old blues song rephrased it, Before you accuse me, take a look at yourself.
I realize we all sin, all have come short of the glory of God, yada yada. It's when some people forget that ALL means THEM TOO, that I get especially pissed off.
Hexy, thank you very much for the correction. I haven't read much of Ginmar for the reasons I have outlined. I did read her when she posted at Ms, and even recall agreeing with her several times. She seemed reasonable then; I had no idea she was in the military, or it did not make an impression at the time.
She's changed.
As the aforementioned famous rabbi also said, concerning war: "All these are the beginning of sorrows." (Matthew 24)
Re: Ginmar's job as army interrogator –
In her defense (cue sound of snowstorm in hell), I'll point out that "interrogation" does not automatically mean torture. In fact, in situations when the military has actually followed its own laws of war, not to mention international law, torture as part of interrogation is specifically prohibited.
Ginmar has apparently always claimed that she conducted by-the-book, non-torture interrogations. Lacking any evidence to the contrary, I'm not going to accuse her of war crimes.
She posts about the topic here.
I will say, though, that there's a definite contradiction between what she says in that post and the "Pride and Ego Down" approach that seems to be her patented blogging style.
I loathe Ginmar, of course, but I'll keep that loathing on the basis of behavior and attitudes of hers that I know about for a fact.
When do I get a trademarked "Ginmar special" nickname? I admit it.. I'm JEALOUS!
Am I allowed to call her a trained assassin and war criminal on your blog, Ren? I know you've been NICE AND PRINCIPLED AND PATRIOTIC, telling me not to, and I've been a good girl, but what about now?? Pretty please?
This is for Ren to answer on her own blog, but I will say once again, for me personally, I am NOT OKAY with this shit. In fact, in makes me fucking LIVID. It is not okay to make those kinds of horrible generalizations about soldiers, and when I see people doing it, I want to throw things and punch somebody.
NOT COOL.
Amber, I wasn't generalizing, I was speaking specifically of someone who brags repeatedly about having been an army "interrogator"... I doubt she did the water-boarding herself, but it would appear that was the next stop on the prisoner-of-war express.
And then, this person actually believes it's okay to judge other people re: THEIR chosen occupation.
I know what you mean about wanting to throw things and punch somebody-- I feel the same way about this immoral and illegal war, Gitmo, interrogations and torture. So you know, YMMV.
Seriously: "contributes--let's face it--absolutely nothing to the furtherance of society" is a fairly classist concept. It's great to have the wherewithal to have cover ones own and ones family's basic human needs such thaqt one can then look towards wider goals. Not everyone has this luxury, though.
Yup.
I think I especially love how yet another more-radical-than-thou type turns out to be, well, fairly indistinguished from the apparently deeply conservative roots from whence she came, both in general unconscious attitudes and in current lifestyle. Which would be nothing against her, the latter, anyway, if she, you know, weren't being a loathsome prat.
but basically, yeah, I looked at some of her stuff here and there: it's a bit like Jean Teasdale channeling the Church Lady. In the name of radical feminism. quel awesome.
"hey, ginkateers!..."
I actually wasn't suggesting she was guilty of war crimes, m'self. and I agree, it's gilding the lily and unnecessary.
I do think: um, you were saying about women who buy into the existing power structure...? rise above the level of subsistence/grunt work reserved for "oh okay we have to pity her rather than condemn her then, p.s. those are the only two options" in their particularly despised/"sellout" line of work? At least RE's not doing anything that isn't consensual.
that, and yeah, her interactional style online, well, it is a bit "old job new job" innit.
she could've been a professional basketweaver and it'd still be just as fucking obnoxious, though.
it's just, if she -really really- wants to go there about what is and isn't properly justifiable for a woman, a -radical feminist,- no less, damn her circumstances or any nuances, some lines she just SHOULDN'T CROSS for self-benefit; well, that's not even a beam in her eye, it's the whole damn Pentagon.
while we're on the subject of what is and isn't over the line on account of other people find it offensive also, justified loathing for the subject at hand notwithstanding:
Either the She-Wolf Sister is combining with the PTSD bouts to fry Ginny's brain; or she's just being her usual certified over-the-top manic asshat
Not cool. For several reasons.
Think about it. Think about who else is posting here. I do find that offensive, actually.
also? not interested in Gr's tits or panties, thank you very much, can we please leave them out of this? or anyone else's, as far as that goes?
Okay, the mental image here is me running onto the soccer (ahem football/futbol- for the international readers) field in the black outfit, blowing a whistle and eyeing the Yellow Card meaningfully.
For the record. I am not okay with dissing the troops. I am not okay with dissing Gin for being in the military. My supposed "dissing of her for it" was not, in fact, dissing, it was me saying "The Military is Sexist, just as my biz is sexist, how can you say otherwise, yet you chose to be in the military".
End. Stop. Period. There.
A whole lot of my friends either are in the military, come from serious military families (eyes Mr E), or work for the Federal Government. Like me, they are people, and deserve to be treated like people...NO MATTER WHAT THEIR JOB IS. The argument works for all- just as I have had shit days at work, or had bad situtations, or done things maybe I'd rather not...well same for folk in the military....AND EVERY OTHER PROFESSION OUT THERE.
So yes, we're done here on that one, saavy? Want to discuss sexism in various professions, including my biz or the military, FINE. How people choosing to be in those industries says something? Have at.
This other stuff? No.
"There certainly is no reason to take on a job that carries that degree of personal risk and which contributes--let's face it--absolutely nothing to the furtherance of society, that you'd be embarrassed to admit to your family you were doing that for a living, that you'd never tell a future husband about, that you might leave off your resumé.?"
Oh, fuck, you're right. Note to self: remove that lawyer gig from resume, stat.
ba DUMP pssh
My supposed "dissing of her for it" was not, in fact, dissing, it was me saying "The Military is Sexist, just as my biz is sexist, how can you say otherwise, yet you chose to be in the military".
basically.
I mean, I have nothing against marriage--hell, it'd sure be swell if many of my friends could participate right now, might save 'em a lot of heartache--but you bet I'm gonna point and laugh when some "radical feminist" starts squawking about how bad sex work is because it MIGHT BE HARD TO TELL YOUR HUSBAND.
i mean, -damn.-
Also on the subject of jobs you shouldn't admit to significant others ... some data points. Guess which people had a problem with my stripping (all of whom I dated seriously while working 3-4 days a week, except of course (E)):
A) party boy actor
B) conservative investment banker who later turned out to be antifeminist among other severe flaws
C) inner-city teacher who volunteered at feminist organization
D) progressive feminist lawyer with best ass on west coast (oops, that may not be relevant) whom I later married
E) my mom
Anyone whose answer included A, C, D or E would be wrong.
okay so i missed this spat and so DON'T WANT TO KNOW but uh, I hope kitty is okay.
Well, look, many if not most soldiers don't go into the Army because they think, "Hey, you know what would be great?? Torture and killing people!!" And when they do that stuff, they're following orders. No, it's not okay, but let's be real here. A lot of soldiers go into the army to pay for college, to support their families, because of not many other viable options... hmm, what does that sound a whole lot like, now that ya mention it?? I am totally against the war, but I am NOT against soldiers. Yes, I come from a family with quite a long military history, btu I could personally give two shits about being involved myself... btu what I know is, soldiers are PEOPLE, and it's too damn reductive to talk about in terms of "so and so tortured people" - that doesn't get anything done and only fulfills and conservative stereotye of "not supporting our troops."
I can't even really articulate what I'm trying to say, bc this stuff pisses me off so much.
Sorry Ren missed your comment about being done w/ discussing the military thing. I'm just angry and I hope you can undersatnd why. I will stop now tho. Sorry. I stand by everything i said tho.
The flipside of that, of course, is that if you do have a partner/husband who is fine with your line of work, he must be a pimp/john/enabler/whatever.
Responding to Belle:
[My original] Either the She-Wolf Sister is combining with the PTSD bouts to fry Ginny's brain; or she's just being her usual certified over-the-top manic asshat [...] [/me]
[Belle] Not cool. For several reasons.
Think about it. Think about who else is posting here. I do find that offensive, actually.[/Belle]
Wasn't my intention to offend anyone (except probably Ginny, who deserves to be offended for obvious reasons)....but out of respect for Belle and others here, I will repudiate that "She-Wolf Sister" remark.
I still think that Ginny is a certifiable asshole, though. Any one with that much of a grudge and a vendetta should really have her head examined.
And oh, yeah...the quip about comparing Ginny with those with "plastic tits" wasn't a reference to Ginny's boobs, which I could care less about. It was to Ginny's lack of a heart and a soul as compared to a lot of women with implants that I know and respect far more than I ever will her.
I'll just accept my 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty and pay the fine...though I think it's more than worth it to call out Ginny's bullshit.
Anthony
***The flipside of that, of course, is that if you do have a partner/husband who is fine with your line of work, he must be a pimp/john/enabler/whatever.***
Or else he's not a "real man" (TM).
Amber, a long time ago, I wrote a long analysis of why people go into the military for the anarchist newspaper, Overthrow. Believe it or not, I'm not stupid. I fully understand the economic factors, which are a factor of Just War theory (mentioned above). As is the economic condition of the people under attack, of course.
I've noticed your anger is quite a formidable shield, often preventing reasonable political discussion, so I'll sit this one out, thanks. Been there, done that, and fairly recently, if I ain't mistaken. But I'm working on a blog post that I'll link here when I am finished.
And I stand by everything I've said, also.
War is hell
Amber, thank you for helping me to clarify some of my ideas. I couldn't have written it without this conversation.
rescinding appreciated.
it's not really about the PTSD or "manic" either. she's an asshole. she uses such things as excuses for her assholery. which is one reason for not invoking them oneself when observing her assholery; it just shores up her self-righteousness. the other of course being that a lot of people have
PTSD and other mental diagnoses and yes, it's often used to stigmatize. Wrongly.
Yeah, it does seem like she's going through...something...at the moment, more so than usual, maybe, even. And yeah, there are very good reasons why she'd be having PTSD, flashbacks, suffering. Those are reasons for her behavior. They still aren't excuses. And her "friends" do not help her in this regard. Other people have bad days or weeks or episodes; the difference between them and Gr is, on their better days, they acknowledge that what they did on those bad days wasn't on. At -minimum.- Gin never does. Never apologizes, never accepts apologies, never is wrong. About anything. And never changes. Not really.
That's not PTSD. That's something else. That is, at some level, a choice, and she is responsible for it.
PTSD is a rather complex condition with many symptoms; including - but not restricted to - insomnia, flashbacks, periods of memory loss, depression, mood swings, anxiety, paranoia, panic attacks, heightened awareness, irritability, hyperactivity, hypervigilance, and phobias related to the trauma. It is not an excuse for bad bahaviour. I say that because I've known people to use all manner of mental illnesses to explain why they are behaving in an anti-social manner, and PTSD is one of those illnesses that does get used as a crutch in this way by some people. PTSD makes life difficult, and it can make a person irritable and short tempered. It can even give them very short periods where they behave as if they are suffering the trauma all over again - which can be strange and even scary to witness. But it is not an excuse to be abusive or violent towards anyone, and it can be controlled.
but it never will be if one is never called on it, and one decides one is always, always justified and on the side of the Righteous, because one is a Supra Feminist (!) or whatever the fuck else it's supposed to be today. Tragedy is when gin cuts her finger; justice (there is no comedy in ginland, not really, not when it comes to herself, anyway) is when other people fall down a manhole and die. even if they fell partly because she shoved into them, bulldozing along the street, in her PAIN.
"I'm not like other people! I can't stand pain, it hurts me!"
or, as Natalia put it, elsewhere:
Rectal-cranial inversion is a serious disease! Don't make fun of it!
...i had to go and look, again.
for fuck's sake, case in point. she frigging attacked Jack for no. reason. at all. he wasn't arguing with her, he wasn't talking to her, he was -taking her side- (wrt PIATOR). why'd she go after him and his blogroll? fuck knows. maybe mnem had apologized one too many times and she needed a fresh target and the fact that he'd caught her bloodshot gaze was enough.
whatever; suddenly, without missing a beat, she's switched her tune from college girls and mnem's classism to Jack and the terrible company he keeps--and everyone goes along with it as though this made any fucking sense at all. Hey, he probably deserved it for -something-; let's just go with it. whee! whee!
so now apparently the line is:
wildcherrygal
2008-02-07 05:42 am UTC (link)
Well Jack Goff is a pilot fish. You kno they're coming when he shows
up.
(Reply to this)(Thread)
mediumdave
2008-02-07 08:13 pm UTC (link)
Which is why I'm not the least bit sorry that gin got her licks in
first.
(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)
ginmar
2008-02-07 08:15 pm UTC (link)
You're just brain washed like all my other flunkies. Seriously, what
is it with these guys and their inability to take a stand? There's
Ampersand and his Robert, Jack Goff and his little pro pornie friends.
What -stand-, you stupid fuck, he -was- taking a stand! if it was PIATOR.
but, the "pilot fish" thing--oh, okay, right, so, retcon time: it was okay to attack him because it was a pre-emptive strike against THEM i.e. US coming in, attacking ginmar for -no reason- except we just hate America I mean feminists so much, and ruining the perfect feminist haven and Thoughtful Discussion they had going there.
which, yeah, except for:
1) I for one wouldn't have even looked in there if I hadn't been directed to gin's splooge; and still probably wouldn't have spoken up in there if it wasn't for dana's outrageousness sending me over the edge. I don't read Pandagon, I don't like Amanda, and the topic looked hell stupid even before gin started in with her specialness.
2) Ren wasn't in there at all, until ginmar kept invoking her name over and over and fucking over and then the rest of them started in on it as well, as if it had -anything- to do with the topic.
3) the rest of us didn't come in until after dana's bullshit. Because that was so incredibly fucking out of line.
4) it was ginmar's wankage that was derailing the topic to utter shit to begin with. which is SOP for ginmar.
so basically, if ginmar hadn't gone after Jack to begin with, and then Ren by extension, none of us would have been in there at all.
and if she hadn't gone after mnemnosyne the way she did...well, she wouldn't be ginmar, I suppose.
apart from that though: the logic: GOLD.
gold tinfoil, but still nice and shiny.
what a bunch of maroons. and now apparently Dana the Feminist is -still- digging and well on her way to China at this rate, and god i hate the Internets some days, i really really do.
bottom line: the problem with ginmar isn't that she's "crazy;" the problem is that she makes everyone else fucking crazy! Wasn't that gaslight brighter before? just a little? o well, probably my imagination, nervous laugh, my apologies, really, you're wonderful, so sorry you've been so put upon...
Daisy -- I'm a fan, as you know, and I understand your perspective about the military and about war. Still, after much internal debate, I am concerned about getting into personal judgments and past disputes in this context, esp as both you and Amber expressed anger about your respective opinions. My $.02... maybe there's another way to disagree here?
Belle:
Actually I didn't say anything until danas comment either.
But yeah, I LOVE how Gin rewrites history in her beset upon favor. she totally jacked the thread, then her posse shows up, and only after the you asked for it bs did any of us say word one. Fact. Proof right there on the thread. Done deal.
"why'd she go after him and his blogroll?"
Because it was once again time to very publicly stir up shit with Ren and if she has to flame her way through all six degrees of separation to do so, then, by gum, she'll do it. Priorities are priorities!
yeah, she needs to stir the shit. past experience with her: she'll drag in every single goddam past dwama with everyone remotely connected to the current sitch/people there, or even not connected at all, until she hits gold: a reaction! someone takes the bait! then keeps drilling away.
It's the revisionist job on the truth and the ever moving goal posts and refusal to answer things that charms me the most.
I mean, did you know I never wrote about unfortunate sex workers or "bad shit", apparently????
that's what's so special about her, the gaslighting. she probably believes it, too, is the thing. you can't argue with that shit, not really, not with her. all you can do is respond with the truth and pray that the audience is listening.
Oh, DAMN.....
Sounds like Ginny's just being her usual certified over-the-top manic asshat....again.
As for the "Ms. Plastic Tits" smack: ahhhh, lady, I happen to know a lot of women with such enhancements, and I can say that compared to them, you wouldn't carry their panties. Not even on one of their nipples.
Oh...and how nice, Ginny, that you show yourself as sooooooo tough that you could threaten us with numerous ass kickings. Yet you are the first one to run crying back to your LJ journal to moan about how us mean, mean sex poxxies are harrassing you. Oh, waaaah...from tough girl to WATB in 3 posts.
Oh, and BTW, Ginny.....considering the lengths you go to compare us sex poxxies to Abu Ghraib torturers, and your former occupation as an interrogator; I just have to ask: Is your reflections on torture a reflection of your acts?? Have you now or ever done waterboarding or any other form of torture...and do you even think that it is acceptable?? It's one thing to drop at your knees for Teh Patriarchy; it's quite another to connect live wires to people's genitals. I can guess which one you find more offensive.
I'll say it again, Ginny: SYAD and STFU. Or not...seeing your head explode from your ultimate meltdown wouldn't make me sad.
And what Ren, Belle, and especially Daisy said.
Anthony
[Edited to remove some content that was totally unintended and totally not germane....Ginny is assholish enough without the original references.]
Hey Ren. Sorry I haven't been here to condemn what is happening, I haven't really been keeping up. I can't believe that Ginmar believes it is feminist to call people the names that I have seen her spouting on that post and elsewhere. Just because someone has written good posts before doesn't mean they are immune to criticism, and I am ever so sorry that she and the people in that thread and Dana (? not sure where this is coming from?) has said the things she has said. Also, her jibes about 'college girls' is kind of ridiculous. And also a generalisation because also middle and upper class women get an education, many lower class women do too, or women that come from working class backgrounds. And yes, feminism has strived to make education open to women, and it should be seen as a positive thing, even if is construed as classist. What Belle said at the beginning - that she learnt a lot from reading before going to college - I second this as you CAN educate yourself: some women I know from working class backgrounds know so much and either from educating themselves or fighting to get to university or college.
Damn - that fucking 'plastic tits' thing is so unbelievably misogynist. No radical feminist, no woman that truly cares about women would say such a thing.
liz: thanks. sorta par for the course with her and some of her readers though.
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