Thursday, March 20, 2008

Young, Dumb, and Full of Cum

Yeah, it’s a porn title. It’s also the way it appears a lot of older, wiser, and more radical feminists look upon those pesky sex positive idiots. Now, this begs a lot of questions in my head for a few reasons, but first and foremost, how are you defining your terms here? Young? What constitutes young? Under 40? Under 30? Under 25? The same age you figure most women in the sex biz are? College aged? Younger? I mean, who are these young women corrupting the movement? I mean, I generally consider a woman under 30 to be a “young woman”, but for some reason, I figure when various folk discuss those sex positive girls who are all “empowerful” with their lean, fit bodies, eyeliner, diets, heels, and wild sex lives who apparently know jack and shit about life, themselves, the world, the pat, men, or anything else of import, they are picturing even younger women…late teens and twenty-something’s, but then again, I don’t know, because no one has actually defined the age line divide between “stupid young sex positive” and “wizened real feminist”.

But I’ll let you in on a little secret here, a great many of the sex positives out here in bloglandia, that Universally Loathed gang of thugs whose comments rarely see daylight in certain sectors and inspire countless rants on “what’s wrong with the movement?” You know…us? Not all that young. I mean, I’m far closer to 40 than 20, 36 to be exact. Most of the other infamous sex-poxes seem to be anywhere between late twenties and fifty, actually. We’ve done some living, seen some shit, worked and related out there in the really real world. Some of us have probably seen shit that would make you cry, puke, run screaming, or all of the above. Some of us are het, some are bi, some are gay, some are trans. Some single, some partnered, or married, and some have kids. Some are upper class, some middle class, some working class, and in we come in every shade and color. So yeah, me, 36 and not getting any younger woman (not girl, woman) who is still doing just fine in a business you assume chews women like me up and spits us out once we hit thirty, ala Logan’s Run, well consider me real curious on what constitutes a “young feminist” in your heads? Because I’m pretty sure, by any definition, I don’t so much count as young anymore…I mean, my “Barely Legal” days are long gone and in pornspeak (which y’all seem to love) I am now in “Milf” territory, as are a great many of the other sex positive feminists I know. In and out of the sex industry.

Oh, and check your ageism while your at it. It’s unbecoming on you. It makes you look…ignorant.

Or, all things considered, are y’all just trying (smirk) to be polite and using the term young in place of other, less flattering words such as dumb, blind, ignorant, inexperienced, deluded and foolish? Sure, it’s a common tactic to use “youth” as a catchall for all those other words, but as we all know…age doesn’t always equate to wise, worldly, or enlightened. In fact, age often has nothing to do with it. The amount of living and experience a person has is not always reflected by the number of years they’ve been walking around on this earth, the number of lines on their face, or the way they choose to dress and adorn themselves…or who, how, when, or why they fuck.

Hehehe, you knew we’d get there sooner or later, right? The appearance and fucking issues? Well of course we would, because that’s what it all seems to come down to in so many ways. The older wiser feminists have it all figured out, have the ins and outs of appearance related issues down to a fine art and the politics of fucking mastered with the ease of a Machiavellian student. Because they are older and wiser and smarter or something. They know! They have seen! They long ago put away childish things! And it pains them, akin to torture, to see all these sex positive feminists co-opting and corrupting the movement, what with their heels and work out routines and short skirts, their “perky tits”-real or fake- and their eyeliner and lipstick. And oh yes, with all that sex talk! Who they’re banging, when they're banging, how they're banging- in such unfeminist ways! Engaging in BDSM and power dynamics and rough sex or even just plain old PiV intercourse with one or more people…gah…sometimes male people! With their blowjobs and anal sex and condom drives! With their ambivalence towards or even more dreadful, their support of, pornography and bondage art and alternate lifestyles.

Gads, maybe if those tramps would just stop fucking and worrying about their selfish orgasms maybe, just maybe, they would grow up and see the error of their ways and become real feminists and stop fucking up the movement, right?

Right?

Smirk. Hate to break it to you, but hell, not even all us sex positives have sex. Some are women in menopause, or have other reasons for not boinking like the drunken party girl bunnies you make us all out to be. Some of us see our sexuality as a very huge part of our female being. Oh, and we do see it as ours. Some of us look at all the window dressing as not only something we enjoy, but a damn good way- much like plumage in nature- to attract someone we are attracted to and want to fuck…solely because we want to fuck them! Because fucking feels good! Hell, maybe we are way less concerned with our own choices, made as adults, in regards to appearance and sexuality than you are! Maybe not every choice we have to make has to be a feminist one…especially if it denies us our own voices and opinions, our pleasures and our individuality, our sense of expression and a very real and large part of ourselves, or in one old sex poxes case, the way she happily makes a living. Maybe there is more to us as people than a cause. And hell, maybe the fact that we’ve not felt burned by men, or society, or the pat, or sex plays a little bit into it…Hell, no one else was gonna say that, so I figured I better.

And maybe, we’ll never coming crying to you so you can pat us on the head and say “I told you so”, because maybe, just maybe, no experiences are universal, and what applies to you does not apply to us, maybe it never will, and maybe that makes you no better, wiser, or correct…

Maybe it just makes us different. Thank god, goddess, and all the minor deities. Because I sure as hell could not live that way. I’ve gotten naked for and or fucked more dudes than most people can imagine, for fun and for money, I get degraded and screwed on film regularly, by choice. I’ve willingly cut up my body to have it look a way I not only find more attractive but is more man approved ™ , I wear heels even if they do hurt sometimes, I’ve lived and worked in absolute hell-holes, I’ve cleaned someone else’s blood and cranial fluid out of my carpets, and I would take all of that, the good and the bad, to the smug, condescending, grim desperation y’all seem to offer: a world where men are the absolute enemy, we’ve already lost the war, plans are things that exist in some nebulous place, and anyone who admits to liking conventional girly shit, unapproved sexual practices, or being attractive to the gender she is attracted to is a traitor and one day, will be up against the wall! Or, oh wait, she’s a deluded victim who cannot make choices or operate autonomously and one day, she will by crying on your shoulders…and then, and only then, will she have repented sufficiently and be allowed her own persondome.

And here’s another clue for the wise and enlightened and not deluded “old women”… Being a sex positive ain’t all about the sex. It’s often about the positive. As in, the glass is half full kind of way. Optimistic. Hopeful. You know…positive?

And that’s what you’re lacking. Nah, we’re not all fun and games all the time. There are things we take seriously. I think I dished on that once before. But even I can only be so grim. I don’t think feminism is about some women telling other women how to dress, alter or adorn their bodies, how to earn a living, or who and how to fuck. I never have. Choice goes beyond abortion and all. And you know what else? I have yet, in all my deluded, fuck-obsessed years, to see any sex positive telling you how to dress, adorn yourselves, what jobs to have, or who and how to fuck. Imagine that? Most of us have overbearing elder figures in our lives, and didn’t come to feminism to find new ones. We came because we thought it was something positive.

And still do. No matter how much you’ve corrupted that.

So call us what you want: Sex Poxes, Fun Feminists, Fuck-Me Feminists, Traitors, whatever. Point is, no matter how young, dumb, and full of cum you make us out to be, how clueless and treacherous and blind, the truth is we’ve seen what you have to offer, and as adult women with forethought, intelligence, and agency, chosen something else. The sex-positive alternative.
And I suspect that stings. Just a little.


My advice? Rub a little dirt on it, you’ll feel better, and don’t leave the light on or the door open, because we’re big girls, and we won’t be home later.

38 comments:

bint alshamsa said...

Oh my goodness! This should be in some sort of journal! You are amazing, woman! There are MANY women I know who need to read this message.

Renegade Evolution said...

Heya Bint! Long time no see, how you doin'?

::Bows:: Thank you, I am but a humble sexbot...er...servant.

Amber said...

Love it!

This is one of your best posts ever.

Kim said...

"the truth is we’ve seen what you have to offer, and as adult women with forethought, intelligence, and agency, chosen something else. The sex-positive alternative.
And I suspect that stings. Just a little."

VERY well said!

Anthony Kennerson said...

Two words:

REN.

wINS.

Enough said.


Anthony

Renegade Evolution said...

::hat tip:: My pleasure, y'all.

Ernest Greene said...

Ren,

Thanks for brightening my day with this excellent post. It should be read by everyone, whatever his or her current persuasion.

And BTW, if you look at the vanguard of the sex-poz crowd, we're fuckin' old.

Betty Dodson is 76, for chrissake. Annie Sprinkle, Carol Queen, Candida Royale, Nina and myself - all in our forties and fifties. Many of us were there when the third wave took on the second wave for the first time back in the Eighties.

Whatever anyone thinks of our opinions, they cannot be dismissed for lack of life experience. We've all been around plenty and seen many of the same things the other side has seen.

We've just dared to draw our own, different conclusions based on the evidence.

Patronizing attempts to dismiss us as sheltered, privileged, over-sexed adolescents fail to fit the facts.

Daisy said...

Yes, awesome post, particularly this:

And here’s another clue for the wise and enlightened and not deluded “old women”… Being a sex positive ain’t all about the sex. It’s often about the positive. As in, the glass is half full kind of way. Optimistic. Hopeful. You know…positive?

It's just so much nicer to live with a positive outlook, and that's why some of us chose that route. :)

Nice to see you back!

Iamcuriousblue said...

Righteous!

Sarah J said...

Mmm. Delish.

I am quite tired of reading about how my decisions to have sex with men are not my own.

I will quote Wendy Kaminer, because I can and because she gave up being anti-porn in part because, as she said, "Women need a feminism that makes them feel strong."

jz said...

Hi,
I've been lurking for a few days, and feel that you've bated me in today.

At the risk of revealing my "condescending grim desperation", take a break from behind that bunker. You sound cynical and venomous.

Best Wishes,
jz

Renegade Evolution said...

jz:

I am cynical and venomous...so it would appear all is well. And break? Shit, I am on vacation!

bint alshamsa said...

I've been busy having my life turned upside down.

Life is just barrel full of surprises, it seems. We might as well enjoy it in whatever ways we can. Having a lot of sex sounds like a good choice to me.

cheshire-bitten said...

Great rant.

I wish I could add more.

Blackamazon said...

I heart you A lot

Renegade Evolution said...

BA: the feeling is mutual.

belledame222 said...

BINT!

Catseye said...

I'm beginning to wonder if the anti-porn feminists are so out of touch with reality that they're in denial about the length of time that's passing and if they even realize that Generation X is now heading into middle age. The new teenage and early adult age generation is Generation Y, which is, I guess, the name that's stuck. I don't know if they're still part of the Third Wave, but I hope they're continuing the Third Wave trend of being mostly sex-positive.

And, like Ernest said, the sex-positive and pro-porn movement started with the Second Wave! Heck, there were even free love advocates during the First Wave, too!

And, I think Ren's post was excellent, too!! I've always known I could never fit in with the sexually repressed, ultra-politically correct crowd of feminists.

Candy said...

I think that my viewpoint should have weight not *despite* the fact that I'm 22 and a nude model, but *because* I'm 22 and a nude model.

All this talk in feminist circles about objectification and sexualization of women- especially younger women- and what motivates them to take their clothes off- and it seems as though no one ever asks the women in question what they think or why they do what they do.

Hello! I wish someone would ask us instead of just speculating and judging.

whatsername said...

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I love it.

hexyhex said...

I don't identify as a "sex-positive" feminist, but I do think sex-positivity is hugely important. It does make up a part of my politics, my activism and my feelings.

The world we live in is incredibly sex-negative, and that is damaging to people, women especially. Rejecting and reacting to that is the essence of sex-positivity.

With all the name-calling (on both sides of this particular issue) and ranty blog posts that reference ranty-blog-posts that reference ranty-blog-posts that often refer to things that happened quite some time ago but will never be forgotten... well, I thought it was worth pointing out what a simple and valuable concept sex-positivity actually IS.

Jenny Penny said...

This is so so so so soooooooooooo good!!! Extremely well put!

Rootietoot said...

It's all about choice, ain't it. You make yours, I make mine, how hard is it to respect that that in each other? Near impossible for some, but that's their shortcoming, not ours.

Iamcuriousblue said...

I agree with Ernest – its only partly a generational thing. Andrea Dworkin and Ellen Willis were contemporaries, after all.

Still, I think with the radfems, there is a mentality of "Our Second Wave got feminism exactly right in 1978 and how dare you come along and try and change it!" (Not unlike stuck-in-1968 "New" Leftists.) However, that mentality seems to be shared by younger radical feminists who wear the title "Second Wave" as a badge of honor.

Iamcuriousblue said...

"Generation X is now heading into middle age."

Sad but true. :-/

Renegade Evolution said...

All these waves and no one wants to surf...

Amber said...

Hello! I wish someone would ask us instead of just speculating and judging.

Except chances are, they wouldn't like your answer, and would tell you that you need to "examine" more.

willt said...

I'm young, I've been badly burned by men and "sex," I'm totally pro-BDSM and "alternative lifestyles," and I have mixed feelings about sex positivity. I'm not sure how to articulate exactly how I feel yet, but I'm working on it.

Ernest Greene said...

I don't mean to seem like I'm picking on you, willt, but as someone who has practiced ethical BDSM for three decades, i understand it to be all about sex and all about embracing alternative sexual lifestyles with a positive attitude. How can you be pro-BDSM and in favor supportive of alternative life-styles and still have mixed feelings about sex-positivity?

BDSM is a form of sexual expression. If it's used for any other purpose, it's likely to be some kind of weird power trip of just trendy "sceneing" for the club crowd.

Help me out here. I really am trying to understand where you're coming from on a subject that means a lot to me personally.

belledame222 said...

EG: I can't speak for willt, but I think a number of people who basically identify with the principles are becoming disenchanted with some of the stuff from what they've experienced from people calling themselves SP or SR, sort of similar to y'know how a lot of people who care about womens' rights and what you think would be the basic tenets of feminism are becoming increasingly disenchanted with the term/identity.

personally I use the term by default, but I have to say sometimes it makes my teeth ache.

I think I want to talk more about what "sex-negative" actually means, in the greater context, not just the feminist one (although yes, one can be both feminist and basically sex-negative), because this is in fact what "sex positive" really is in opposition to: millenia's worth of "don't touch that, don't think that, dirty icky nasty taboo shame shame shame shame shame."

Ernest Greene said...

BD:

Yes, unfortunately, I do know what you mean. Alas, there are assholes who identify under almost any label, either because they think it might get them something from someone or wish to be thought hip and cool or just have no other flag to fly. I meet them all too often, false-flagging themselves in the worlds of BDSM, XXX and/or SP. I'm not going to name names here, but I suspect you and others who read this blog may know some of them by name.

I think you rightly emphasize the importance of countering the negative programming to which we've all been subjected regarding sexuality, and why there was a need, and still is a need, for a movement of sorts to accomplish this goal.

But as soon as you have something that can be called a movement, you begin to attract not only the well-intentioned and thoughtful, but also the opportunistic, sleazy, clueless, unbalanced, lame, dead and mad as well. After signing up with so many worthy causes over the years only to see them jacked by their worst elements, I can understand anyone's reservations about anything that smacks of group-think.

All that being said, I still remain puzzled by willt's last post. I'm a bit sensitive on this point, because in my own experience, the "non-sexual BDSM players" fall mainly into the less helpful categories enumerated above.

For me, and for most of us who belong to what is now often derisively called "the old-guard leather crowd," BDSM is at the core of our sexual identities, running as deeply in our DNA as gender orientation.

There's a lot of bullshit affectation passing as BDSM these days, and from what I can see, the problems we now have in what was once a fractious but highly responsible community with exploitative, reckless and dangerous behavior arise mainly among from those who pass themselves off as "spiritual seekers" of some sort, as opposed to the jolly perverts who created the world of kink since fallen into many more hands.

In the current atmosphere, a person who has a history of being exploited and mistreated is all too likely to run into just exactly the individuals who should be avoided at all costs and to succumb to their various hustles.

That's why I'm pursuing this question. Given what we've read so far, I'm a bit concerned by the prospect of an old pattern being repeated in a new venue.

I come in peace on this particular issue.

belledame222 said...

I didn't necessarily get that that's where willt was coming from; perhaps wt will return to clarify at some point.

Trinity said...

you win as usual.

Anonymous said...

I'm a lurker. A guy. I have two young daughters that I am so blessed with and I just want them to be able to accomplish anything they want without restrictions placed on them by society.

I call myself a feminist and have since the early 70s but I have to say that on several well known feminist websites, I am mainly called a misogynist, a rapist, a wife beater, and a pedofile :(

I like to think I am sex positive but my primary attitude is that if it doesn't involve me and it's between consenting adults then whatever. And if it's actually working for you, then congratulations because well, so many things are not working and if you and your partners have figured out something that works for you, that seems to be like a goddamned miracle.

Twisty and her philosophy of feminism bothers me for many reasons at many times, but I usually find her honest. What bothers me more are the feminists that call themselves sex positive but then continue to dish their judgment out on everyone else's sexual lives, sexual practices, and politicizing each act and assigning it various values depending on who initiates, the sex of practitioners, whether this act is being undertaken by gays or straights, and whether this act is taking place within the context of a marriage.

I find it amusing that many acts that are positive and encouraged between gays, become suspect between straight, and downright oppressive in the context of a marriage. And that's coming from self-proclaimed sex positive feminists. And lots of people believe them!

I had an epiphany that in the way that ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny, what these feminist have done is recapitulated the Church Ladies but now they call it Feminism. All of that to flog my favorite video that shows what I consider to be the real issues with so many feminist bloggers these days. (Yes, I linked to this video last night, it's Pick A Little from the Music Man.)

Anyway, I'll go back to lurking and I hope I haven't been too annoying.

Caitlain's Corner said...

The more I read your posts, the more I come to love you. You're spot on, sadly. I've been referred to as one of those "young" ones by certain radfems, so I definitely feel you on this. Excellent post.

Anonymous said...

I am the lurker guy from a few days ago. I'd like to clarify my comment, by saying that in no was I referring to you as one of the sex positive feminists that judge other people's sexual acts.

I am referring much more to many of our "top tier" feminists. Feminists who are not sex positive, but to appeal to others they claim to be sex positive. (Or maybe it is just because they are clueless.) Panda feminists if you know who I mean.

Iamcuriousblue said...

Anon writes:

"I am referring much more to many of our "top tier" feminists. Feminists who are not sex positive, but to appeal to others they claim to be sex positive. (Or maybe it is just because they are clueless.) Panda feminists if you know who I mean."

Oh, I think we know exactly who you mean, and I definitely agree with your assessment of her.

Jo said...

I read this with such delight and deep appreciation, I just want to hug the snot outta you. I'm a forty odd transgendered woman working in the adult industry. I work with adult stars every day and very very seldom do I meet one who doesn't want to be here. I'm so tired of being talked about by feminists, top tier, white, older, and never NEVER talked to.
It's ridiculous sometimes reading blogs by echidne or ithiliana and the words just don't mean anything to me and I get it. I do. They're not talking to me. They're talking to each other. I'm just a theoretical woman who fills in the space and applauds when they say something brilliant. God forbid I should disagree, which I did. That just made me uppity and they had to school me.
Brava!
Thank you.