Renegade Evolution: The 'don't be this guy' open thread...

Saturday, April 26, 2008

The 'don't be this guy' open thread...

Okay, a thread for folk to discuss how to "not be that guy"... have fun with it !

36 comments:

Renegade Evolution said...: personal pet peeve...dudes who ask/want to know/talk about how big their dicks are.

Don't be that guy!; 1:27 PM
Anonymous said...: Kleenex is defensible. Lotion is explicable. Please don't leave them lying around your living room in close proximity to each other. (And the computer.)

Don't be that guy!; 1:44 PM
Zula said...: Guys who ask me to "rate" them on a scale of 1-10... it seems only douchebags do that, and it's awkward and annoying besides.

Don't be that guy!; 2:48 PM
Rootietoot said...: hm...ooh. I know...that fine upstanding member of the church who tells my husband that he can't call himself a Good Christian Father unless he spends 2 weekends a month away from his family at a Promise Keepers Thing. ( I'll bet a dollar you've never run into one of those); 3:08 PM
Ernest Greene said...: As someone who believes in gender equality, I'll be happy to add a few items to this list when there's a thread to match called "Don't Be This Gal."

Once I either Nina or I tell women what we do for a living, we get to hear all kinds of inappropriate questions and see all kinds of incredibly rude and ignorant behavior. Thankfully, it's not the norm, but it's still far to common.

Not defending asshole guys here. Just pointing out that assholes come in all shades of gender, as we've seen here ever so vividly in recent exchanges.

And no, I am not an MRA of any kind, which is one of those inappropriate accusations I'm talking about.; 3:14 PM
desire said...: i know, i mean why not just show me?

also, liberal applications of axe body spray. if you wanna use deodorant, a touch of aftershave/cologne or even a conservative helping of body spray, i'm down. but please don't reek of synthetic scent. it's NOT a turn-on.; 3:37 PM
Anonymous said...: I can’t stand it when guys who spend too much time watching less than size four women with disproportionally large breasts getting used and humiliated but say they just love it in movies then expect me to want that in bed and to look like that.; 6:25 PM
Tom Nolan said...: personal pet peeve...dudes who ask/want to know/talk about how big their dicks are

I sometimes brag to women about how tiny my penis is. Is that inappropriate?; 7:08 PM
Kim said...: Asks for fellatio -- but hasn't showered in 48 hours.

Don't be that guy!; 7:28 PM
antiprincess said...: I can’t stand it when guys who spend too much time watching less than size four women with disproportionally large breasts getting used and humiliated but say they just love it in movies then expect me to want that in bed and to look like that.

if that's happened once to you - shame on him, your erstwhile partner.

if that's happened more than once - shame on YOU. surely all these fellows didn't spring their desires on you all of a sudden, after weeks and weeks of being an otherwise-perfectly-suitable mate. learn to read the signs of people who can't separate fantasy from reality and learn to avoid them.

mind you, though I'm not at all petite (ten sizes too large for your potential suitors, in fact), I'm WAY into humiliation scenes. and I'm not about to apologize for it or be made to feel guilty or bad about it.; 8:00 PM
Amber said...: Heh, at Balticon I'm going to be on a panel called "Don't Be That Guy." It's about women's reactions to men in the tech/podcasting world.; 8:11 PM
Octogalore said...: I can't stand it when guys watch Oprah and expect me to be a billionaire. Or when they watch women enjoy staying up all night with dead bodies on CSI and expect me to do that, since I'm not even great with sick people. Or when they see Demi with Ashton and want me to pick a young lover instead of their old fat ass. Guys just can't separate media from reality, ya know?; 8:17 PM
Amber said...: As someone who believes in gender equality, I'll be happy to add a few items to this list when there's a thread to match called "Don't Be This Gal."

Oh give me a break.

Don't be THAT guy!; 9:00 PM
Amber said...: Octogalore FTW!!!; 9:02 PM
Trinity said...: "if that's happened more than once - shame on YOU. surely all these fellows didn't spring their desires on you all of a sudden, after weeks and weeks of being an otherwise-perfectly-suitable mate."

right on.; 9:07 PM
Trinity said...: Don't be this guy:

"I'd really love to see you in something more feminine and sexy."
"Well, that's not how I am. Here's a couple options: we femme-watch together, or you get femmed up. Either way, I'm me, you can deal."
"Oh, that's fine. You're hot the way you are."
"Cool, then."

*four minutes/hours/days/weeks later*

"But you'd look so good in lace! Don't you LIKE ME?"; 9:10 PM
Ernest Greene said...: Amber said:

As someone who believes in gender equality, I'll be happy to add a few items to this list when there's a thread to match called "Don't Be This Gal."

Oh give me a break.

Don't be THAT guy!"

Well, Amber, perhaps I wandered in here by mistake. As the male half of a sex-worker couple, I take some pretty hard hits from women, some of which have been reposted here, so I'd like to think my own views on this subject might get a bit of respect, but no, I find that any mention of this kind of thing gets me consigned to the category of "THAT guy."

I'll let it lie at that. I don't need to go anywhere to make new enemies.; 9:44 PM
Cheshire said...: "Oh yeah baby I am totally into the hot kinky sex"

What you mean it's not all about getting my dick sucked on demand, your clearly not a real sub/bottom/kinkster.....

DO NOT BE THAT GUY; 10:48 PM
belledame222 said...: As someone who believes in gender equality, I'll be happy to add a few items to this list when there's a thread to match called "Don't Be This Gal."

Oh give me a break.

Don't be THAT guy!

9:00 PM

gotta agree with this one. dude, "equal" doesn't mean--oh, skip it.; 10:59 PM
belledame222 said...: The guy who insists on screening "Suspiria" to a room full of men + one woman as what's supposed to be a fun movie night, then gets completely butthurt when the one woman and her best friend are alternately nauseated by the misogyny and hooting at the sheer ludicrousness of the whole thing, rather loudly, as opposed to one presumes -appreciating- his -good taste-;

then goes -weeping to his room-, and relies on his boyfriend (who you should not be EITHER) to dramatically ask the Rude Woman and her pal to Leave and Never Darken Their Towels Again, You Were Incredibly Rude, I Said Good DAY, Suh!

then finally, when the woman, who's finally had enough of the dwama and indeed heads out, stops at the door, and mutters, cravenly,

"It -was- really fucking sexist,"

shouts tearfully after her,

"SO'S EVERYTHING!"

--what, this isn't a universal experience? "oh."; 11:05 PM
Daran said...: personal pet peeve...dudes who ask/want to know/talk about how big their dicks are.

They don't know how big their own dicks are?

Or they want to know how big the dicks of your co-stars are?

If the latter, then I would have thought the retort was obvious: "Buy the goddamned movie".; 1:04 AM
Daran said...: The guy that asks me for advice on marketing his intellectual property over the internet, then when I ask to see the product so that I can have an idea what he's on about, refuses because he thinks I might steal it.

Don't be that guy!; 1:08 AM
Drakyn said...: Mine are grocery store specific as I just came from work:
Don't be that person who says sie going to get one thing at the checkout lane and is gone for ten minutes as a line gets longer and longer (especially if I've already started to ring you up).
Don't ask the cashier personal questions; that is everything from medical issues/history to what I do in bed to if you can touch my hair.
Don't hide perishable items behind the magazines or whatever if you don't want them; we won't laugh at you or force you to buy them if you just hand them to us.; 1:14 AM
Lady S said...: The guy that says - 'can we not use a condom?'

Damn you. You have no respect for me our yourself - get out of my bed.

Or: 'I'm a nice guy really'

No, if you insist you are, you're not.; 9:35 AM
Tom Nolan said...: The guy that says - 'can we not use a condom?'

Damn you. You have no respect for me our yourself - get out of my bed.

My proposal to a bedmate that we have sex without a condom does not imply lack of respect for myself or for her. Yes, there are obvious health-risks associated with unprotected sex. But there would be equally obvious health-risks associated with our undertaking a mountaineering expedition together. Would my invitation to a woman to climb a mountain with me indicate that I despised my humanity and hers, do you think?

How, in point of fact, does asking somebody if they would consent to do anything at all imply a lack of respect for them?; 12:35 PM
Trinity said...: Tom: It's not the asking. It's that the asking, every time I've seen it (from men and from women too, actually) it's been more than a simple request. It's not just "hey, I'm not big on condoms/dams and I just gave you my full panel of test results. How about foregoing that, then?" "No." "Shoot, that's unfortunate, but OK."

First, IMX it very rarely comes from people who actually *do* have their test results for you in a timely manner. (Which, if you're a barrier hater, LEARN TO BE EVEN BETTER ABOUT THAT THAN WE ARE, DEAR.) In my own experience the people who want to forgo the barriers are LESS scrupulous about this stuff, when they ought to be MORE so.

Second, it's often not a request but a request that becomes badgering. "No? No? But those things are so icky and I can't feel a thing baby baby don't ya want me to feel good I'll be all left out oh no poor me."

At which point the person who said no is wondering "hey, if this is a deal-breaker for you because your penis is so lacking in nerve endings that you can't feel anything through a thin layer of latex, WHY ARE YOU BUGGING ME RATHER THAN LEAVING? Clearly sex with me will be totally unpleasant for you. Why still claim you want it?"

Really. I don't want to hear about the sad state of your penis' sensationless torpor. That's your problem.; 1:25 PM
Tom Nolan said...: Tom: It's not the asking. It's that the asking, every time I've seen it (from men and from women too, actually) it's been more than a simple request. It's not just "hey, I'm not big on condoms/dams and I just gave you my full panel of test results. How about foregoing that, then?" "No." "Shoot, that's unfortunate, but OK."

Well, that's fair enough, of course. Your previous comment seemed a much more general condemnation, but I accept that you intended it as short hand for something more specific.

Really. I don't want to hear about the sad state of your penis' sensationless torpor. That's your problem.

OK, I'll stop going on about it, then.; 7:29 PM
hexyhex said...: If condoms actually stopped feeling, men would be far better at noticing when they broke.

My current "don't be that guy" has popped up a few times recently.

"Oh, hey, you're a Dominatrix?"

1) covers ass and/or genitals, making crude comments

2) offers ass and/or genitals, making crude comments

3) does neither, but proceeds to ask fucked up and intrusive questions, loudly, accompanied by crude comments.

DON'T BE THAT GUY!; 2:03 AM
hexyhex said...: I simply will not have sex with someone who asks to not use a condom. And yes, it IS disrespectful. Leaving your DNA and body fluids, with their potential disease spreading and pregnancy inducing capacity, INSIDE ME is not something you just casually request when we're already approaching the act. THAT is major disrespect.

It might be a minor deal for you that you forget about as soon as you've come condom-free, but not for me. If you're even considering that it's a reasonable thing to ask a non-ongoing partner when you don't have recent test results and an alternate birth control measure at hand, you're a jerk and I don't want to fuck you.; 2:06 AM
Tom Nolan said...: I simply will not have sex with someone who asks to not use a condom. And yes, it IS disrespectful

I feel bound to repeat the question I asked Trinity: how is asking for somebody's consent about anything you care to mention disrespectful?

Leaving your DNA and body fluids, with their potential disease spreading and pregnancy inducing capacity, INSIDE ME is not something you just casually request when we're already approaching the act

Attempting to leave those yucky, possibly infected fluids in somebody else's body against their wishes would be disrespectful - indeed it would be a crime. But the attempt to gain consent to do so is neither of these things. People ask one another to participate in dangerous activities all the time: "shall we go pot-holing, surfing, bungee-jumping etc. together this bank holiday?" Do you think that such questions show "a lack of respect" and should be answered with an outraged "No! How dare you so much as ask?" Or is danger associated with sex to be viewed as a wholly different matter?

It might be a minor deal for you that you forget about as soon as you've come condom-free

Or, alternatively, I might have contracted some horrible venereal disease. The dangers of unprotected heterosexual sex are not altogether the concern of women - who may themselves occasionally ask their partners to perform without a condom just before or even during intercourse. Do they deserve to be kicked out of bed just for asking?

If you're even considering that it's a reasonable thing to ask a non-ongoing partner when you don't have recent test results and an alternate birth control measure at hand, you're a jerk and I don't want to fuck you

Deceit is indeed disrespectful and the mark of a jerk. But if a man tells his one-night-stand partner that he has no idea whether he is HIV positive or not, might have other venereal diseases too, admits that he isn't very good at withdrawing before ejaculation etc. - if he tells her all that before requesting unprotected sex, than I still don't see how he can be reasonably accused of being disrespectful. Though, I agree, the woman in question would be extremely ill-advised to accede to his request.; 5:56 PM
hexyhex said...: how is asking for somebody's consent about anything you care to mention disrespectful?

Do they deserve to be kicked out of bed just for asking?

Do you even realise what you're saying, Tom? A bunch of women have told you that in a particular circumstance, they would feel disrespected to the point of not wanting to continue a sexual act and you are saying that that isn't good enough!

I don't CARE if the man in question feels that he doesn't "deserve" to be kicked out of bed. Any person can withdraw consent at any time, for any reason, and it is entirely valid. End of story.

Or, alternatively, I might have contracted some horrible venereal disease.

I know my STI status. I don't know yours. If you are the one requesting the unsafe practice, don't you think the onus is upon YOU to ensure no disease is transmitted during it?

The dangers of unprotected heterosexual sex are not altogether the concern of women - who may themselves occasionally ask their partners to perform without a condom just before or even during intercourse. Do they deserve to be kicked out of bed just for asking?

Again, "deserve". If their request makes their partner uncomfortable, then it is entirely valid and acceptable for him to end the encounter.

But if a man tells his one-night-stand partner that he has no idea whether he is HIV positive or not, might have other venereal diseases too, admits that he isn't very good at withdrawing before ejaculation etc. - if he tells her all that before requesting unprotected sex, than I still don't see how he can be reasonably accused of being disrespectful.

You honestly don't see the disrespect in "Hey, baby, I've got no idea if I'm carrying a potentially fatal illness, and I've taken no steps to ensure you won't end up pregnant from this encounter that bears with it no guarantee that I'll stick around for pregnancy/termination/childrearing... but I can still leave my ejaculate in you, right?"

Dude. It's right freakin' there. Perhaps you'd see it if you were listening to the women who were telling you this is a common way for us to feel, rather than arguing with us.; 8:25 PM
Trinity said...: "People ask one another to participate in dangerous activities all the time: "shall we go pot-holing, surfing, bungee-jumping etc. together this bank holiday?"

Tom, this is a bad analogy. When I ask someone to go bungee-jumping, I don't ask them if they'd be more excited leaving out standard safety precautions. Most risky activities involve risk minimization or harm mitigation. What you're saying analogizes not to "want to go ride motorcycles?" but "want to ride without a helmet?"

And like I said, it's not often presented as "Yeah, I've sometimes enjoyed riding helmetless, how do you feel about that?" It's presented as "I don't want to use a condom" and then blame or anger or whining and wheedling when the person says "No, that's crazy."

Most people don't think of sex like they think of jumping out of planes.; 10:26 PM
Trinity said...: Also, Tom, you're still suggesting this person doesn't even get tested. Why should women be "nice" to someone who does absolutely nothing, not even the courteous minimum?

If this is you, and you don't get tested... then don't blame anyone else for the bitterness you're developing. No, not everyone will reject someone for that. But it's perfectly sensible that they assume you've got something to hide, and whether it's just a disrespectful attitude or something that could kill them, it makes sense they'd not want to stick around to find out.; 10:28 PM
Anonymous said...: hexyhex,

"A bunch of women have told you that in a particular circumstance, they would feel disrespected to the point of not wanting to continue a sexual act and you are saying that that isn't good enough!"

to be fair to Tom, he didn't say that it is not good enough. He is just asking why they would feel disrespected. He has given an analogy, which I think is quite apt. But you are not pointing out why the analogy is wrongly applied to this situation, but instead put words into his mouth and intimidate him. If that is what you consider an intelligent discourse, I'm sorry that I am commenting.

Now let me put in my point of view. In this world with such an amazing diverse group of people, people's likes and dislikes are varied. And we have no way of knowing someone's preference till we ask. So I don't really see the harm in asking. Maybe you will meet someone that has the same inclination as you and then two of you can have sex condom-less. If not, then it is up to either party to leave or carry on with a compromise.

It is just like when I buy only a few items at supermarkets and the cashier asks me if I want a plastic bag. I would normally say no and put the items in my bag. That way, a plastic bag is saved. If they don't bother asking, they won't know the customer's preference and the plastic bags will just be wasted and added to the world's garbage pile.

All I want to say is that communication can't be wrong.; 12:17 AM
Anonymous said...: Trinity wrote

"Don't be this guy:

"I'd really love to see you in something more feminine and sexy."
"Well, that's not how I am. Here's a couple options: we femme-watch together, or you get femmed up. Either way, I'm me, you can deal."
"Oh, that's fine. You're hot the way you are."
"Cool, then."

*four minutes/hours/days/weeks later*

"But you'd look so good in lace! Don't you LIKE ME?""

I guess this peaked my interest because I might be that guy.

First off, what do mean by "femme-watch together".

I guess I'm going off topic but I dont understand why some women are so averse to guys wanting them to look feminine or wear certain outfits.

ALL THE TIME/MOST OF THE TIME that I understand. I like being comfy and hate having to dress for others. However I may never want to wear speedos or dress up like Rum Tum Tugger, but if it turned my woman on that much I figure it wouldn't kill me to do it once and a while(not in public of course), and it would be little unreasonable and selfish of me not to try it at least once.

Thats my humble opinion. I dunno...I guess its because I'm more turned on by sexy outfits than I am nudity. If you think that makes me "bad" in some way, do elaborate.; 3:17 AM
Tom Nolan said...: Trinity

Before answering your objections, can I just get one thing straight? I actually agreed that your restated position in the last comment you addressed to me was a reasonable one. My dispute with Hexy is a different matter. She is defending the position I mistakenly attributed to you: that merely asking for unprotected sex is a disrespectful act.

(I mention this because I have before now found myself involved in arguments with posters and bloggers who felt personally offended by remarks which were intended to address quite different interlocutors and problems.)

What you're saying analogizes not to "want to go ride motorcycles?" but "want to ride without a helmet?"

Yes, it does. Why is asking somebody if they want to ride without a helmet disrespectful?

And like I said, it's not often presented as "Yeah, I've sometimes enjoyed riding helmetless, how do you feel about that?" It's presented as "I don't want to use a condom" and then blame or anger or whining and wheedling when the person says "No, that's crazy.

And, like I said, I agree with that this is the disrespectful behaviour of a jerk. It's not the point at issue.

If this is you, and you don't get tested... then don't blame anyone else for the bitterness you're developing

It is by no means me, Trinity: I have never requested sex without a condom. As a matter of fact I find genital penetration a vastly overrated aspect of sexual activity and normally have to be talked into it by impatient bedfellows. And what have I written that evinces bitterness - can you be a little more specific? I am doing my best to be as rational and objective as possible in the face of some pretty nasty innuendo, it seems to me.; 7:44 AM

Renegade Evolution

Saturday, April 26, 2008

The 'don't be this guy' open thread...

36 comments:

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