This is a guest piece by Ernest Greene, who yep, sure enough has been invovled in various aspects of the porn biz longer than some of my readers have been alive. As I am interested in the lack of interest taken in or notice of male sex workers, I asked him if he would be so kind as to do a post on the matter. He was nice enough to do so. That being said, Ernest is a guest here, so I ask that you treat him with the same respect...oh, wait, where am I? Ahem...more respect than often shown your cynical hostess. I ask that comments be civil and on topic, and I will not hesitate to used draconian powers of moderation- even though I don't like doing it.
So, settle in, grab a drink, smoke if you got 'em, and learn...and now Ernest takes it away~
Okay, here's the deal. I already told Ren by email that I didn't feel too welcome here, based on responses to some things I'd posted previously, and hadn't planned to come back. But I did air some ideas I have about male sex workers, having been one myself on and off since I was 24, and she took it upon herself, fearlessly as usual, to post on the topic. Seeing some of the stuff that followed, I can't say my apprehensions are exactly allayed, but it's clear that a nerve was touched and that some information needs to be shared before any of the judgments that have already popped up can be supported or opposed.
Yes, I have some opinions of my own, but those aren't any more useful than anyone else's unless backed up by some straight 4-1-1. I want to try that first and then let's see if this is a conversation we can carry on in a civil and constructive way. If it can't be, that tells me something too, which makes it all the more worth a try.
I know a little bit about most kinds of sex work done by men, including stripping, escorting, live sex performance, etc. But I've worked in porn continuously for the past twenty-five years and that's the branch of sex work I know most about, and male porn performers are the male sex workers with whom I've had the most extensive contact, having been one myself both before and after I started working as a video director. I won't make any generalizations about the guys who do the job – a varied bunch not easily typed – but I can describe what's required of them, how they're compensated for it and what challenges it inevitably presents in their lives.
This is not meant to initiate a contest over who has it worse or who deserves more of what. I think both male and female porn players have their burdens to bear, that those burdens are somewhat different and that how easily they're carried depends more on the individuals in question than whatever gender they happen to be. I understand that this is a controversial view in itself and those who don't agree will certainly have their say, here or somewhere else. Fine by me.
Let's start by talking about the money. The sex business in all branches is really more about business than it is about sex, which is part of what makes it inherently a contentious issue. You can't discuss it meaningfully without recognizing it as first and foremost a commercial enterprise. Any commercial enterprise involving such intimate labor exacts a certain cost from those who practice it in return for its material rewards.
In het porn, male performers overall are paid much less than women. There are a few exceptions, and in recent years, the more reliable and appealing male performers have closed the gap a bit, but the gap remains and it's pretty wide. For a straight boy-girl scene, a male player makes anywhere from three to eight hundred bucks, with the vast majority pulling down about five hundred. A BJ only might go as low as three hundred, but there's no up-charge for anal or DP unless you're one of those few, sought after dudes who can be choosy and demand a slight premium for something you don't really like doing. I'm talking slight as in an extra hundred bucks to have a second male performer rubbing dicks with you through about an eighth of an inch of female membrane.
In gay porn, the bar to admission is higher. If you're not good-looking, hung and able to perform reliably with other men, you need not bother to apply. However, if you're sought after on that side of the fence, fifteen hundred bucks is a good starting price and the rates can go way up from there. Just like the men on the straight side, that one-time check is all you'll ever see for any particular scene, no matter how much it makes the producer, and every time you do it you create a permanent record of something that will effectively bar you from almost any other kind of employment. Hard enough to be out about being gay. Harder still if any potential employer, landlord, family member or whoever can actually watch you take it up the ass on a wide-screen TV. Not surprising, when you consider these factors, that gay players get paid more. Gay players do work with condoms almost universally, but they also work without testing, which the gay side of the industry doesn't require.
In het porn, female players can and do charge by the specific act. A few make big bucks, but most have pretty standard rates. Lesbian porn, as distinct from girl-girl material made for male audiences, is mostly pro-am for small production companies and it commands the dead-lowest rate, somewhere south of five hundred dollars per scene.
I can't resist wondering aloud if the poster here who suggested that straight guys who don't like their rates should just bend over and spread for other men would make a similar suggestion to lesbians. Somehow I very much doubt it.
Pro GG with no extras (vanilla licky-licky with fingers and a small toy or two) brings in anywhere from six hundred bucks to a grand, depending on the performer's current popularity. Use of an anal toy kicks that up another couple of hundred.
A BJ-only boy-girl is rarely more than five hundred for the girl.
A vage-only boy-girl for a female performer is typically around seven hundred, with a few players being able to command a thousand. Twelve hundred is the going rate for anal with one male partner, though fifteen hundred isn't outrageous for someone with an established name. A first anal or a first BG might run up to five thousand dollars, but that trick only works once and only for a fortunate few who come in as former Penthouse Pets or whatever and can command a premium for existing name value.
Stunt sex – DPs, ATMs, ATOGMs, double anals, double vages, cream pies, gang bangs and so on obviously escalate the price, sometimes into the thousands, but there are plenty of female players who do stunt sex for a lot less. However, you can bet that whatever they're making, they're making more than the guys they're doing it with.
This is not because, as someone on this thread has suggested in a display of breath-taking ignorance, there is such a glut of male talent just clamoring to get in here they're practically a dime a dozen. That would be good for a laugh if it weren't such a blatant insult to the few men who actually do try to make the cut. In fact, the reason you see the same dudes over and over and over and over in video after video is because they are the ones who not only will have sex for the camera, but can do so with predictable results. That is a very small group of men. Sure, lots of horny dudes think they'd make great porn studs. About one male civilian under thirty in every ten I meet asks me if I thought he could be then next John Holmes. It takes me two questions to sort them out. Does he have a dick that's at least ten inches long fully erect? Can he get it fully erect, keep it that way for an hour and then have a visible ejaculation in front of a room full bored men with no other source of stimulation, visual or otherwise? If the answer to either is negative, he has no chance.
This industry gets away with paying guys less due to a perverse twist on the law of supply and demand. Precisely because there are so few who can meet these criteria, those who can are able to work a lot. I mean a whole lot, as in five scenes a week, sometimes a couple more if they double-book themselves. So the most they can earn is about three grand a week, but they can keep pulling that down for as long as they can get it up. Tom Byron, for example, has been doing scenes for almost as long as porn has been legal in this country. If you put some money aside, you can actually go someplace and do something else after a few years. Trouble is, what can you do with your anatomy gracing literally thousands of videos? That question is no easier for a man to answer than it is for a woman.
Oh, you think it doesn't follow you the way it does female performers? Right. I know a guy who was made ONE hardcore video when he first got out here and was flat broke. Ten years later he was vice president of a mainstream studio where there was a typical executive power struggle in progress. He came into work one day and discovered a copy of his only X-rated title on every single desk. He was outta there that afternoon.
So on the bottom line, unless you intend to keep doing scenes until you're my age, which is pretty fucking old, you need to bank those bucks and make an exit plan, because a lot of the other revenue streams that might give your female counterparts a boost just aren't there for you. Web site? I know a couple of guys who are trying it. So far, no male ClubJenna. Big company contract? It's happened once or twice, but at about half the rate the same company would pay a female player for the same number of scenes. And that's once or twice, period. Feature dancing? Nope. Personal appearances in video stores? Negative. Artificial anatomical parts named in your honor? Maybe, if your name is Peter North. Escort work on the side? Not on the straight side. Women don't have to pay for it and they don't do so. Selling your used underwear on ebay? Don't think so. You get my drift, I'm sure.
The total annual earnings for a male performer in any given year will certainly be lower than those for a female performer at the same career point. The fact known to every producer is that most porn consumers are men and that no man's picture on a box cover ever sold a single unit on the het side. This is reflected in who gets paid what.
However, a female player's career, with very few exceptions, is going to be shorter. There are busloads of pretty young things arriving in Van Nuys every day, and after every production company has shot any one of them five times, she's done working for that company. There are about two hundred active companies making video out here at any time. Do the math. After a few hundred scenes, it's back on the bus, unless you're really exceptional in some way. Nina is still doing half a dozen scenes a month after 25 years, but the average career for a female performer is about twenty-five months. We always tell the new ones to take it slow and make it last, but to suddenly discover at age eighteen that you can pull down ten grand a month makes you deaf to good advice.
Therefore, over the longer term, the numbers do even out a bit. A female performer might make more on a specific day, but across the span of her career, she's likely to make about the same thing a hard-working guy will in his ten years as opposed to her two.
And there is much more opportunity for advancement for male performers who can learn new skills. It's much easier to switch over to the crew side for a man. If you can carry a camera, hang lights, operate an editing system or manage a production, you can cross the frame lines into a new trade. If you have some vision of your own, you could be the next hot director, another John Leslie or Jules Jordan. You can end up with your own company, a McMansion and a leased BMW.
The only women who have ever made it into the real ownership class in porn video are Candida Royale and Jenna Jameson. Both are very shrewd and hard working and put many years into building their businesses. Candida left performing early and built a couples' niche market for her products that essentially didn't exist until she invented it. Jenna made her success as a result of perfect timing, fierce ambition and the kind of street smarts acquired at the cost of the experiences she describes unblinkingly in her book. There are some powerful women execs in porn - the chief of the publications division I work for at LFP is one. The head of production at Vivid Video is certainly another. But the equity in most of the bigger production shops stays with the boys.
This is no small difference that works to the disadvantage of women. The companies are indeed owned mostly by men and they are much more likely to take another man into the company than they would be a woman. The glass ceiling here is practically bullet-proof, so let's just not have any bullshit about that. Porn may be empowering to some women in terms of what they can do with the cash and how they can use their names to leverage some other heem, but solid service as a male performer positions you for management, and that's a much more dependable route to power. Everybody still with me?
Okay, let's talk about the work itself then. As a guy, you don't have to even consider the anatomical intrusions among which you must choose as a female performer. You get paid about the same for whatever hole you stick it in and unless you volunteer, nothing is going to get stuck in you back.
Now if you like getting stuck in all kinds of places, and those female performers who enjoy any real success here genuinely do like it or the camera will inevitably unmask their lack of enthusiasm, this isn't that big a problem. Contrary to what the antis always claim, female performers aren't "intimidated" into doing things they don't want to do. There are too many others eager to do the same thing who will thus do it much better for the same money. They find a comfort level in terms of what kind of sex they like on camera, decide which performers they want to work with, and work for the companies that respect those limits. No doubt, having those limits will compromise your income to some degree, but it's up to you how hard a scene you care to shoot and nobody can tell you otherwise.
Guys don't have to make as many choices, but they don't get to make as many choices either. A male performer who's picky about what women he will work with isn't going to get enough scenes at his lower rate to pay the rent, so he'll end up working with whoever he meets on the set when he gets there. If the scene calls for anal, he'll be doing her up the butt whether that's his thing or not, that is, if he wants to make the car payment. If she says or does something to piss him off, he better keep it to himself. Remember, it's her picture that sells the video, not his, so if there's a problem between players, it's the guy who gets replaced.
And when it comes to the physical labor involved, even on a bad day, as Nina likes to say, a girl can get by on lube and acting. A guy has to get it up, keep it up through four positions, covered hard and soft and with stills, stay at the ready regardless of time of day, temperature of surroundings, comfort of furniture he's fucking on, distractions that come with picture making (such as having a hot light stuck under your scrotum so the hardcore is properly illuminated) and distractions in his own head. Some female players are generous about being helpful in this process (smarter for it too, since it gets them paid and home sooner if they don't have to file their nails waiting for him to get wood), but many simply regard their partner's hard-on as his part of the job and go out for a smoke when there's a cut to change camera position. The one kind of sex you almost never get to have is the kind you want with the partner you would choose for it.
Consider this: Masters and Johnson tell us that a typical sexual encounter between ordinary civilians takes a rather unimpressive eleven minutes, start to finish. As a director I allow a minimum of two hours to shoot a basic sex scene. Let that one sink in for a bit.
And at the end of all that, the man has to ejaculate when and where he's told. If it happens too soon or in the wrong place, the camera will miss the famed "money shot" and the whole scene will be essentially lost.
All it takes are two failures to perform as required in a row and a man is finished in this business. The production managers talk among themselves and then they talk to the directors who talk to the agents and it's all over.
Viagra you say? Not the magic bullet some people think. It's just a vaso-dilator that helps you get and keep an erection if you're already so inclined. It's not an aphrodisiac and if you can't focus because you're mom's sick or your car's been towed or your partner won't spit out her gum, the blue pill might not help at all. And even when it does work, it only works well for about about two hours. It also takes an hour to come on. Porn shoots rarely run on schedule, so a Viagra-dependent performer has to guess the perfect moment to drop the tabs. If the camera suddenly quits or the fire marshal shows up or the thousand other things that can delay a shoot happen, he can miss his window and have the drug go out on him half way through the scene.
There is no insurance against performance failure. That is the anxiety under which every male performer must operate every day of his working life.
There's also no insurance against STDs or STIs. While HIV is certainly a greater danger for women, as the receptive partners in most of the porn shot, other bugs are much less discriminating, and they can fuck up your work and your life pretty good. This just comes with the territory for both sexes, but it's also a consideration for both. Condoms can provide some protection (although with the kind of sex we do for camera, they're much less reliable than they are at home, what with all the starts and stops and ups and downs), but there are plenty of things you can get even with a condom on, and the condom is a much bigger obstacle to keeping an edge for the male performer. Again, there is an analogous drawback to them for women, which is the additional friction from drag that may actually make them more susceptible to whatever infections do make it outside the protective barrier.
No joy on this subject for either men or women in porn and not much more that can realistically be done in the way of harm reduction than the required testing we do now. I know this is Un-PC and downright heretical to some people here, but the resistance to condom use in porn isn't all because of male piggery in the audience or on the set. Female performers hate them too because they don't work all that well for this application, make everything take longer and result in added wear and tear on internal parts.
Relationships? Definitely advantage female players on that one. There are all kinds of men who will date or even marry porn performers. Some are slimy suitcase pimps. Some are just living out their fantasies. Some are surprisingly supportive and terrific. Some are fellow performers who work with their spouses as teams.
But very few civilian women will even consider getting involved with a man who fucks other women for a living, and who can blame them? In addition to the jealousy factor, there's also the disease risk and the harsh reality that a man who has to get himself up and off under trying circumstances several times a week may not have much left for his sex life at home.
There comes a terrible moment in a male performer's life when he realizes that if he stays up all night rocking and rolling with his new girlfriend, he may not be able to work at nine in the morning, which means a lost scene at best and possibly irreparable reputation damage at worst. He's got to ask himself if he can afford to blow off five hundred dollars to have some fun or if the phone bill matters more. I've yet to see a non-sex-worker woman make it six months with a male performer as a primary partner. About the only long-term prospects are people in the same business who can understand what you have to do and not take it personally. That limits your prospects rather severely. Most male performers simply do not have sex lives of their own. That is what they sell to make their livings.
Even friendships with other men are difficult. They give you that nudge-nudge-wink-wink-aren't-you-a-lucky-dog shit and you just want to run. They want to be fixed up with this or that porn star you've worked with or they want to get invited to the wild parties you obviously go to every night or whatever. They just don't get it and you just can't explain it to them.
Don't even try explaining it to your family. They may not toss you out for being a whore and a slut, but they will disown you for being a lazy bum who uses his dick instead of his brain or his hands to earn his keep. Being a male porn performer may not be a family disgrace, but it's a pretty low status job and nobody is going to be proud of you for doing it.
But you can't think about things like that because if you do it may fuck with your process and if your process gets fucked up you won't be able to fuck and you'll be fucked for sure then, so you just learn to keep it all inside. No rescue organization is looking to find you. Diane Sawyer isn't wringing her hands over your terrible fate. Radfems just consider you one more henchman of The Patriarchy. If you commit suicide, as Cal Jammer did a dozen years back, it won't even make the papers, much less inspire gooey elegies from anti-porn bloggers after you've been in the ground for a decade. Never heard of Cal Jammer? Didn't think so.
No, once you sign on for this deal, you're here to stay and you're pretty much on your own. You won't marry your way out of it. You won't be able to go on Oprah and make a career crusading against it. You won't be able to sell your memoirs to Judith Reagan. You'll either get inside the system or the system will get inside you, and if it's the latter, your prognosis is not great.
Does this breed resentment in some of the guys? Sure. Do some of them have bad attitudes toward women? Yep. Are some of them nice, friendly, regular blokes? You bet, possibly even a majority. Are some of them closeted bi-guys who take their frustrations out on their fellow players? No doubt about it. Are some of them lover-boys who require too much emotional maintenance? A most frequent complaint of female performers to be certain. Are a fair number of them just plain dumb, clumsy and insensitive with no interest at all in pleasing those with whom they work? That one cuts both ways.
Don't take my word for it. Read what Susan Faludi had to say about it in her New Yorker piece "The Money Shot" after she got a few male performers to go on the record. Then tell me how easy it is for this class of male sex worker and how much better they have it than their female counterparts.
No, as Tommy Byron once told me, it's not all hearts and flowers out there under the lights, not for women and not for men either.
I hope all this gets some people thinking and if not, well, it should. A male sex worker is a human being just like you, not a life-support system for a penis. He's not just a load. He's a man, and what he does is not "getting paid to have fun."
I'm not a parent to any of these people, male or female. They're consenting adults and it's not my place to question their choices, especially since I made the same ones back in 1984. I was lucky to have abilities that eventually put me behind the camera instead of in front of it, but I know that happens less often than not.
In conclusion, I would say that being a sex performer, male or female, is not as bad as those who hate porn say it is, or as good as those who make porn want you to think it is. It's neither as dangerous as it looks nor as safe as we all wish it were. At least our trade is legal, for the moment, and that is one huge advantage not to be underestimated. But it is far from socially acceptable, regardless of which set of chromosomes you got, and the decision to enter into it will absolutely change the course of your life, no matter who you are. You may be fine with those changes. Not everyone in porn is a miserable victim by any means. You may have to struggle with those changes and eventually reach some internal compromise with the things you don't like. Almost any job requires that much. You may end up dead in your ex-girlfriend's driveway with a smoking gun in your hand. You may end up with a big house in Malibu.
Sex work can be profitable. It can be fun. It can be creative. It can be ugly and mean. It can be humiliating and debilitating. It can be pretty much what you make it within the limitations of the commercial enterprise that it is.
But what sex work can never be, for either men or women, is routine. As we know so little about male sex workers, any assumptions made about them are necessarily prejudicial and most probably inaccurate. I'd ask anyone to think that over before offering an opinion, much less a dismissive put-down, in the general direction of the men who do this work day in and day out, unnoticed, uncelebrated and largely uncared for.
Any questions? Happy to answer them as long as they're polite and sincere. Snark, smack and off-topic bullshit? I'll ignore it. Fair enough?
Tuesday, May 06, 2008
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24 comments:
I didn't read the whole post because it honestly upset me too much (it was mostly the huge f-ing amounts of money you were talking about) but I'm planning to write more later. I did catch this, though:
I can't resist wondering aloud if the poster here who suggested that straight guys who don't like their rates should just bend over and spread for other men would make a similar suggestion to lesbians. Somehow I very much doubt it.
I am that poster, and I'm not gonna tell other lesbians what to do, but it's what I did, yeah.
And I know you didn't say this but I am NOT less attractive or worth less than people who make that kind of money. Their just hollywood people or something.
Hey, haven't had any sleep, if that was rude. Am calmer now. I'll write more later and explain my gut reaction, which something like a string of cuss words followed by a lot of emotion.
Or not.
willt, you shouldn't apologize for how you feel. How you express it, maybe, but your feelings? No. And Ren has made it clear that you are welcome here.
Ernest,
Very important piece on a subject that has long been needing a writer to write it. You did good here, brother, damn good.
WOW, that powerful, stark testimony was simply and utterly spellbounding. Thank you.
so you just learn to keep it all inside. No rescue organization is looking to find you. Diane Sawyer isn't wringing her hands over your terrible fate. Radfems just consider you one more henchman of The Patriarchy. If you commit suicide, as Cal Jammer did a dozen years back, it won't even make the papers, much less inspire gooey elegies from anti-porn bloggers after you've been in the ground for a decade.
I think many Men can ID with you here - as we as a class, have been wholly marginalized, objectified and dehumanized by the ruling post-fem gynocentrism (hell, just read willt's comments).
That's a lot to take in. I totally know a lot of males in sex work so it doesn't come as much of a surprise to me. But I work with teens so most of the young men I know doing porn are doing amateur guy-in-the-neighborhood-with-a-camcorder videos.
I'm a committed harm reductionist and people's aversion to condoms is super common. What kinds of harm reduction ideas are people you know using in the porn industry?
Especially now that HOOK Online isn't around, what efforts do we know about that are by and for male sex workers?
Ernest a well written and cogent account of the situation. Life is not a bed of roses and neither is fucking for a living. With any luck you wised someone somewhere up to the reality. Then it becomes a more informed choice rather than a dude I get paid for it type of thing.
I'm not sure about willt's back story but i certainly was amused by:
"(it was mostly the huge f-ing amounts of money you were talking about)"
this is not huge money by any measure, and this is not six inches, |---|.
Ren as aways you are at your best when you help inform and explain (either directly or indirectly) from a point of view few of us command.
Ernest- I just wanted to say that was very informative to me, and that's why I read this and similar blogs, to learn what's really going on in the world and learn what's really happening to marginalized people in their own words. I, for one, always enjoy reading your posts (and Ren's, too).
Ernest: Thank you for this.
And in the realm of the less serious:
"Consider this: Masters and Johnson tell us that a typical sexual encounter between ordinary civilians takes a rather unimpressive eleven minutes, start to finish. As a director I allow a minimum of two hours to shoot a basic sex scene. Let that one sink in for a bit."
Could simply be that I'm not good with timing things, but if I'm not confused: gods, am I glad to not be typical. ELEVEN MINUTES? wtf?
Is that just the time it takes someone to orgasm, or what?
WOW. Just plain fucking WOW.
I have a new respect for what male performers go through now....especially since they have to sacrifice so much to get their paycheck.
Excellent job, Ernest....and props to you too, Ren, for being one of the few women out there to actually understand and respect what male performers have to endure both inside and outside the industry.
EVERY man who sends photos of their erections to any porn girl around them absolutely NEEDS to read this.
Anthony
ernest, firstly, thanks. i always enjoy reading your commentary here and i hope you'll stick around.
i'd like to note that any job can be fun and creative, or ugly, mean and humiliating. i've never done sex work and i have certainly had my share f the above. do they compare? i have no idea. maybe. maybe not. can i sympathize? yup. i have to say that in the porn i have seen, which admittedly is not much since it's not really my bag, ht men never seem to be having a great time. it just looks like work.
i have a question. are there ever instances where a performer gets a contract that provides a commission, or whatever you call it, based on sales? like authors or (i assume, am i wrong?) non-porn actors get? is there any movement to give the actors a better deal? is that even feasible?
Thanks for the post. The only other ready information is on an old essay at RAME.
Are men eligible to participate in SWOP? That might offer some more exit strategies - especially as aging has it's effects.
I also keep thinking there ought to be some way of pooling funds to capitalize mainstream businesses as a means of transition. No great promises, but I would venture to write a couple pages of copy for web-sites (I'm not bad on SEO) or literature on a pro-bono basis. If it's a business of a technical nature, I might be able to help out even more, also pro-bono. It's the main skill I can venture in support.
Great essay, Ernest. I had long been aware that hardcore porn acting is not something just any guy could do, even if a guy has a nice body and is fairly well-endowed. The ability to "perform", reliably and under a variety of circumstances that might not exactly be teh sexay, insures that most men would never make the cut.
However, in spite of all I thought I knew about porn, this was something I wasn't aware of:
"Most male performers simply do not have sex lives of their own. That is what they sell to make their livings."
Considering the number of years that a lot of guys are in the business, that's quite a sacrifice in terms of one's own, private sex life.
And Willt – yeah, I am aware that there are some portions of the sex industry where monetary compensation is pretty miserable – street prostitution (female, male, or otherwise), situations where brutal pimps take girl's money, etc. I don't think anybody here is remotely defending that.
Good post, just wanted to let you know you gave me a lot to think about.
This is awesome writing - I've linked to this post from my "highlights from other people" links list on my blog.
Thanks for writing this, Ernest. I have some contact with male sex workers, but the world of porn is a complete mystery. Your insight is appreciated.
I only had a few niggles I'd like to bring up....
I can't resist wondering aloud if the poster here who suggested that straight guys who don't like their rates should just bend over and spread for other men would make a similar suggestion to lesbians. Somehow I very much doubt it.
Lesbian sex workers are actually a remarkably common creature, at least down here. Rub-n-tug, full service, prodomination, stripping... I've met out and proud dykes in all sectors, and have heard straight women comment on how common they are so many times. As I said, I'm unfamiliar with the porn world... it might be entirely different.
This is not because, as someone on this thread has suggested in a display of breath-taking ignorance, there is such a glut of male talent just clamoring to get in here they're practically a dime a dozen. That would be good for a laugh if it weren't such a blatant insult to the few men who actually do try to make the cut.
I was a little surprised to see you dismiss this common myth in such terms, only to follow it up with this:
Women don't have to pay for it and they don't do so.
"Don't do so" is one thing, and I think every worker will agree with you that the vast majority of clients in any sector are male. But the line "women don't have to pay for it" pays into a nasty sterotype I'm not fond of, that all women have sex just waiting for them to step out of the house, because men will put it in anything.
Finally, this:
I know this is Un-PC and downright heretical to some people here, but the resistance to condom use in porn isn't all because of male piggery in the audience or on the set.
... seems a little out of place. I know of a vast number of blogs at which you'd be likely to get an outraged response to such a statement, but Ren's? Not so much.
Again, thanks for your insight. I'll be bookmarking this one to read again later.
This is from Ernest (who is having trouble with Blogger it seems)-RE
First of all, my gratitude for all the supportive comments and excellent questions. I've been wanting to get back here and answer the latter, but sometimes I'm too busy making porn to write about it.
Now that I have a minute, let's see if I can address some of the fascinating issues raised here. It's a pleasure, truly, to discuss these things amid such intelligent company.
Let's start out by briefly addressing the matter of "Hollywood people" and how staggeringly overpaid they are. First of all, professional porn performers aren't Hollywood people. Few of them come from anywhere around here. They get off the bus from Anywhere, USA and make their way to the San Fernando Valley, hoping to make a few bucks and get some attention. They are far removed from the world of mainstream entertainment and what they make is peanuts by those standards.
Even evil Pimps and Pornographers who run the biggest companies in the supposedly gazillion-dollar X-rated vid biz pull down a fraction of what their counterparts over the hill get. Let me give you a revealing example. In a profile for Business Week a while back, the owner of one of the largest production shops in porn offered a general figure for his company's total annual revenues of "about 24 million dollars." Sounds like a lot of money, and it is, if it's yours. But that company churns out several new releases a month and has a string of contract players to pay. There is no overhead quite like production overhead, where everything costs about twice as much as your worst estimate of what it should.
So, let's assume the boss takes home about ten percent of what the company brings in, which is shooting on the high side as far as executive compensation, but it makes the arithmetic easier. That's about $2.5M yearly. Nice. Except that a mainstream studio head makes about ten times that, with stock options, corp. jet and other perks figured in.
This essentially means that our best paid executive nets about as much as a junior partner in a major talent agency.
The disparity goes all the way down the line. When it comes to bankable actors these days, a million bucks is what you pay someone you don't really want very much for a second-billed role. A headliner isn't a headliner if he or she can't command something in the low eight digits with something more on the back end.
Want to hire an important director? Bring your Brinks truck. You're looking at five million as a down payment.
Now on the downside of their situations in "the real Hollywood," very few ever get close to that kind of money and most don't work at all. At any given time, over 90% of S.A.G. actors are unemployed. Most of them stay that way for most of their careers.
It's been said that in the movie business, you can make a killing but not a living. In porn, it's the opposite. Nobody gets really rich, but if you can meet the minimal requirements, you can work daily and pay your bills on time.
And unlike the economics of mainstream picture-making, there is at least some correlation between the success or failure of porn projects and the participants' continued employment. If you do a good job, you'll get rehired. Back when I worked as a real screenwriter, I wrote 22 feature scripts, had seven full-pay development deals and a total of two produced features, both of which flopped. That's an R.O.I that wouldn't inspire even the lamest of porn companies to pick up anybody.
Thusly weird are the economics of entertainment.
Okay, now then, one at a time:
Lisa - Thanks as always for the props. You're a very fine comrade in any struggle and I'm proud to be at your shoulder.
Claudine – With you 100% on harm reduction. That's why I endured seven grueling terms as board chairman of AIM (Adult industry Medical Healthcare Foundation). Our strategies are far from perfect, but they have, thankfully, done the job of reducing harm.
We rely almost entirely on testing as our first line of defense. All performers are required to take a monthly PCR-DNA test (pretty much the state of the art in terms of early detection) for HIV, along with tests for chlamydia and gonorrhea. We test for syphilis every other month. Tests for Herpes, HPV and other STDS and STIs are available through AIM, but not required by producers.
And only the het side of the industry tests at all. On the gay side, condom use is virtually universal, but they don't do testing. On straight sets, any performer can look at any other performer's test results before working with that person. On gay sets, it would be bad form to ask for such a thing, although if there are relevant facts in a performer's medical history, custom holds that he's obligated to disclose them beforehand.
AIM also provides drug and alcohol counseling, access to financial aid for education and direct assistance in forming strategies for players who want out, regardless of whether they use AIM's testing services.
Aim has done over 80,000 PCR-DNA tests since it was formed in 1997. I think we've been very effective at keeping HIV+ people from entering the talent pool by getting them on their initial tests, and when, in 2004, a Patient Zero slipped through the net and infected three other performers, we were able to quarantine the affected parties within 48 hours of the detection of the first case and shut down the whole industry for nearly two months while we put everyone through two full testing cycles before clearing anyone to go back to work. As a result, what could have been a major outbreak was limited to four of thirteen primary contacts Patient Zero had prior to isolation.
All that's great, but let's get real. The biggest harm-reducer when it comes to disease in our business is the conceit of the external pop-shot. A lot of people hate it for a lot of reasons, but I'm convinced it's inadvertently saved a lot of lives. Porno sex, as Nina likes to say, is pretty "dry." Most female players are lube-dependent, with the hot lights and all, even if they're enjoying a particular scene, and the guys work so much, their production of pro-seminal fluid is minimal.
I'm not just talking through my hat here. I sit at the monitor all day long, seeing human anatomy much bigger and much closer than you would in real life, and in hi-def at that. Not only is leakage uncommon, much less a premature ejaculation, we usually have to allow time for the male partner to get himself up to the edge by masturbation in order to get that money-shot. That process can be relatively quick or take a long, long time, but either way, the only real serum exposure will be no accident and while there may be some small risk of infection from facials involving broken skin or whatever (no actual cases reported so far, thank god), its all going to end up pretty far from anywhere vulnerable. On the way, it will be exposed to light and oxygen, two things that kill HIV.
Not surprisingly, two of the four players infected in 2004 contracted the virus by way of internal ejaculation in anal cream-pie scenes, a practice I want to see flat banned in this industry except between exclusive couples and I don't care who doesn't like that.
And as a bonus by-product of all those external pops, accidental pregnancies aren't a significant risk either. I can't say it's never happened, particularly between couples who work together, but such is the rarity of actual sperm inoculation that many female performers don't practice regular contraception of any kind. I think they should, and I don't doubt that some Plan B has been sold as a result of civilian contacts during which a non-pro guy did what regular guys do. But I was amazed to find out how little of a concern this seems to be.
This, too, tells you something about the boys, and I'll be getting back to that.
As for support specifically targeted to male performers, no love there. They've got zip. A while back an effort was made to form a sort of guild for male players, with a popular performer, Mr. Marcus, as its driving force. After a few meetings, it just melted away. One thing we know about the boys is that they are not joiners.
H - Thanks for the credit. I hope some young man out there who for whatever crazy reason might think this is a great life for him reads all this and gives it some additional thought. Maybe he's right and is, as we say "born for porn." As it is for some women, porn can be just the extended, dysfunctional family of your dreams. But for most men, it's truly not an option and they can save themselves some humiliation by just becoming swingers and showing off their prowess to friendlier crowds.
Nina and I like to think we've talked a lot of men and women into seeking their fortunes elsewhere. Porn isn't the wrong choice for everybody or even the worst choice for a somewhat larger group. It's just wrong for almost everybody.
Catseye - Nice to be here. Glad I came back. And always happy to introduce some marginalized people to the bigger world. That way, they're less likely to stay marginalized forever, although the cleansing power of truth doesn't seem to clear many windshields where porn people are concerned.
Trinity - Tragic, is it not? According to M&J, the whole deal from foreplay to climax is no longer than an automated car wash. Their research is about forty years old, so I'd like to think civilians have gotten a bit more hip to that foreplay thing and a bit better about that female orgasm thing, but I don't hang out with them in that way so I can't say from experience. I suspect between two jobs and a houseful of kids, a quickie is more the norm than not.
And you're certainly welcome for the post. This is proving very therapeutic for me and I'm glad if it's informative to others.
Anthony – Well, I'd expect us to be on the same page here as we so often are when it comes to sex work. And you're so right about those fanboys who send off postcards of their units to porn stars. What are they thinking? Do they really believe someone who sucks and fucks dicks for a living is just dying to see another dick when she opens her mail? Sheesh! And boys, I gotta tell ya, that thing might be fine for home use, but by the prevailing standards out here, for the most part y'all just don't measure up. That's not a bad thing. Again to quote the Wisdom of Nina, "there's home cock and there's special occasion cock."
If you really do have the biggest dick in the world, most female performers are going to request somebody else. We've got some size queens out here, but most porn women are delighted to discover, on the rare occasion of recreational sex, that their dates are actually human-size and not mistakenly issued something that belonged on a Tennessee mule at the factory.
Chani - you said it! The definition of a job is "something you wouldn't do without getting paid for it." I've had all kinds of jobs, including a few good ones, but the majority have involved investing some kind of personal capital I'd rather have kept. The worst, in terms of sheer ugly, was my stint as a newbie reporter on the night police beat. Nothing I've been through or seen in porn adds up to a week of those shifts.
To answer your question, royalties or residuals as they exist in mainstream are unknown here. A few contract girls get some small percentage of pictures in which they feature, but that would apply to a very tiny group and after the creative accountants get done, I imagine it amounts to a tiny sum of money.
The only way to really guarantee an ongoing revenue stream is to brand yourself, which means starting a company and either distributing your original products, which is how John Stag and Jules J. and Rocco and, for that matter, Jenna and Tera, got to be so prosperous, or you can hire your services out on a B-to-B basis, which is what I do. Part of my compensation for hassle-free, steady-earning Ernest Greene Studios, Inc. productions is usually a flat per-unit or per-download cut off the front-end. I don't work that often as a result, but then again, I don't have to.
For what it's worth, I think the lack of residuals for performers in general sucks. Since most titles barely earn out, the additional bucks wouldn't be big, but they would be steady if you kept at it and that kind of thing helps when it's time to get out. You actually take something with you to offset the ongoing liability of your brief notoriety.
Part of what hurts everybody - performers of all genders and producers of all genres - is over-production that makes the margins so low it's impossible to compensate workers fairly and stay in business. The right thing to do under those circumstances is go out of business, but somehow most folks find that alternative kind of unattractive.
roykay's got the right idea. Even if you like this work, it is time-limited and not only must those doing it consider the next act in their lives, employers have to be wiling to give them a second look. The worst of all the terrible cliches about all sex workers, especially porn performers, is that they're a bunch of dumb bunnies who can't do anything else. Many of them came here after already doing other things, often quite well. For whatever reason, they decided to give this a shot and it worked for them so now they work for it, but that doesn't mean they can't do something else.
Consider it this way if you're a guy. For a skilled laborer, twenty bucks an hour is pretty good and twice that is union. No wonder the idea of a hundred bucks an hour, assuming five hours stuck on the set with half spent actually shooting, is like a professional's wage. No wonder some them who were say, working construction a few years back, think they're doing pretty well. They know they can't do it forever, but until they see a prospect that's at least as good as what they left to do this, it will be hard for them to bail on it.
But who wants to hire a man who has been a fuck-bot, a load, a meat-puppet, etc. for the past five years? Somebody ought to consider it if that somebody is just looking to fill a position and not make a moral judgment.
IACB – Greetings in new territory. Yes, the men of porn do give up a lot. Strangely, the word that comes to mind when thinking of their lives (and Faludi thought this too) is "monastic." They labor almost constantly, live in small, spare apartments in The Valley, drive nondescript cars, eschew the bling so popular with the girls, go to parties just long enough to be photographed for AVN and then go home to take a couple bong-hits and pass out in front of the big, plasma screen. If you're likely to run into them anywhere but on a set, it's at the gym.
Think about it. You meet a woman in some civilian setting who you might like to date. The conversation is going pretty well until "so what exactly is it you do for a living?" Then it's back to WoW.
Cheshire – I know. It wasn't like I expected either. It was both better and worse.
Why thanks, SDE! I'll go check it out.
(For hexy from ernest...blogger is evil, apparently)
Just a quick reply to hexyhex: Glad you liked the post overall and want to go back to it.
As for your "niggles" I have to say I would have expected them and figured I would hear about them from someone eventually. Let me respond to them briefly, if I can do anything briefly, which is far from clear.
Agreed that there are plenty of lesbian sex workers. I know quite a few myself, and made no claim to the contrary. My issue with the post that triggered my reaction was the suggestion that male performers who are straight and want gay money should just go ahead and be gay for pay.
In fact, some guys who are capable of performing with both men and women do exactly that. Fine by me, as long as that is their choice. The implication I found snarky was that those who weren't comfortable with the idea should just do it anyway or stop complaining about making less money. Again, I don't think anyone here would make such a suggestion to a lesbian-only performer who didn't want to do straight porn but thought herself entitled to something more than what lesbian-only porn pays.
It's also true - and truly disgraceful - that African-American players make less than white players, and that the worst racial stereotypes result in their being cast over and over in gangsta roles that may not fit them at all. I understand that a working guy's gotta work, so many black male players take those gigs even though they don't like doing them. While not criticizing them for accepting essentially racist working conditions, I wouldn't for a moment suggest to a black player who won't do that kind of role (and I can think of at least two who flatly refuse such work and make less money for it) that they should just go along to get along with something they find personally objectionable in order to turn a better buck.
That kind of thinking runs counter to everything I believe about what makes porn an ethical trade. That many performers do things they don't want to because they want or need the money speaks to structural inequalities in the industry that should change, not to the unreasonable resistance of individual performers to engage in acts they don't want to. Nina always advises new performers not to do anything in public they wouldn't do in private. While I realize that's not entirely realistic, I still think it's a good litmus test to use in deciding whether or not to take a specific gig.
There's also a big difference between something you'd just rather not do and something you really hate doing. As I've already said, porn requires many compromises from all performers, but most are fairly minor and more inconvenient than traumatic. What I felt was being suggested was a rather off-hand solution to a rather complex problem.
As long as it's an individual choice, I'm fine with it either way, but I believe it's nobody's place to tell anyone else what they should do in a matter of this kind.
You know, it's funny about the "women don't have to" line. As I was writing it, I had some qualms, and it surely doesn't cover every case. As a stereotype, it is indeed nasty and I didn't want to play into that.
In retrospect, it was also irrelevant and should probably have been left on the cutting-room floor, especially as it distracted from my essential point about the limited opportunities for male escort work, on which you and I completely agree.
The important point is that, with the exception of male strippers, few male sex workers are paid directly by female clients.
As to the condom thing, I've gotten angry responses to posting on this subject re porn almost every place, even at the BPPA. I didn't mean to make it a blanket assumption that people here would necessarily have the same reaction, but I wouldn't assume otherwise anyplace. Condoms, or the lack thereof, are a hot-button issue just about everywhere it's discussed, even among people who are generally porn-friendly but feel that porn industry practices are unsafe and don't approve of that aspect of the business.
There's a back story to this controversy that kind of followed me over here. Virtually everywhere I talk about porn, on blogs or in public settings, this subject comes up, and I'm called to account for what many sex-poz porn fans see as an obvious need for immediate reform.
It really has nothing to do with the venue. Over at ADT, where half the posters say they won't even buy porn if there are condoms visible in it, i got into a long wrangle with a fellow video maker who favors what I see as a potentially irresponsible attempt to impose mandatory condom use in all porn by law. There are a dozen very good reasons why such an attempt would actually make performers less safe, but I don't want to go there just this minute, as it's clearly off-topic. All I can say in my own defense is that i know how loaded this issue is and am definitely gun-shy about raising it anywhere in any context.
In short, sorry about that.
Hope that clears things up to some degree. And I do appreciate the input. I can be just as full of shit as the next guy or gal and don't mind being called out on it, especially in such thoughtful manner.
Thanks for the replies, Ernest!
On gay sets, it would be bad form to ask for such a thing, although if there are relevant facts in a performer's medical history, custom holds that he's obligated to disclose them beforehand.
I was under the impression that in the US, as in Australia, it's illegal to have sex with someone if you know you have an STI without disclosing that status. Of course, it happens all the time and nothing's ever done about it, especially in a sex work context.
On facials:
All that's great, but let's get real. The biggest harm-reducer when it comes to disease in our business is the conceit of the external pop-shot. A lot of people hate it for a lot of reasons, but I'm convinced it's inadvertently saved a lot of lives....
... and while there may be some small risk of infection from facials involving broken skin or whatever (no actual cases reported so far, thank god), its all going to end up pretty far from anywhere vulnerable
Facials themselves are very low risk. Facials involving the eyes, however, are considered to be exceptionally high risk. I'm always disturbed when I hear that the "come in the eye" shot is becoming more prevalent. That's not safe in the slightest, but it's also something that people don't think of as unsafe in the same way that ejaculating inside someone is.
As for your "niggles" I have to say I would have expected them and figured I would hear about them from someone eventually.
I'll own it, I'm a niggler :)
As to the condom thing, I've gotten angry responses to posting on this subject re porn almost every place, even at the BPPA. I didn't mean to make it a blanket assumption that people here would necessarily have the same reaction, but I wouldn't assume otherwise anyplace. Condoms, or the lack thereof, are a hot-button issue just about everywhere it's discussed, even among people who are generally porn-friendly but feel that porn industry practices are unsafe and don't approve of that aspect of the business.
Fair enough, then!
All I can say in my own defense is that i know how loaded this issue is and am definitely gun-shy about raising it anywhere in any context.
If that's the case, I don't blame you.
I'm in one of the few areas of the sex industry where FULL use of barrier protections (condoms, gloves, dental dams) is the norm. I get a lot of concerning talk from women in other areas who are pressured to not use the protection they want to by clients, or inadvertently through competition from other workers who are going without.
Workers choosing not to use condoms in any context is something I support, even when I don't think it's wise. That obviously applies to those in porn as well. The problem arises when workers are prevented from exercising their right to protected sex. I think we can all agree that's not good.
As for people refusing to purchase or watch porn that doesn't use condoms... well, I imagine there's a few reasons for that choice, but I can respect it.
Amber, thank you. Ren has made it clear I am welcome, so thank you also, Ren.
IACB, what the fuck? I never said anything about street prostitution or accused anyone of defending anything.
Ernest, when I said "hollywood" I meant San Fernando or whatever. I didn't mean that you make as much as actual hollywood. I meant porn hollywood versus guy with a camera who wants to film himself fucking you and sell it. Or small company IN anywhere, USA. Neither pays close to what you were talking about. Should I have got on a bus to the fucking San Fernando Valley? I was just trying to get (and keep) a place separate from my abusive girlfriend, pay for therapy, and get back in school. SFV would have shot that last part all to hell. Plus I wouldn't be hired with my scars.
When I said they should bend over, yeah, I was talking smack. But. There's no fucking way I could do g/g or solo shit and expect not to get pressured or forced to do more let alone make rent. I tried to set limits at no anal no cum and even that was hard and required a fuckload of energy to try to defend when I ever talked with anyone. Never mind when what I'd agreed to was flat out ignored. Do straight guys get that? All the fucking time? I don't think what I said would've gotten such a reaction if they did.
So, if they bent over, they'd have a record of something that would make it hard to find another job huh? Like that's unique to gay for pay. Anyway you're basically saying they'd lose their het privilege. That's a fucking good thing, het people don't deserve extra privilege anyway.
From Ernest:
Hi hexy
We have similar laws here, and they do occasionally get enforced, but as you say, rarely when sex workers are involved.
In gay porn, on the other hand, it's a powerful taboo in a very small, tight community to conceal anything that might endanger somebody else. They have the advantage of a much smaller talent pool that is more conscientious about policing itself, which is one reason why the "gay model" wouldn't work in straight porn. We have too many people who just pass through for a few weeks or months and then vanish. There is no real sense of community or the responsibilities that go with it.
Quit right about eye pops. Very high risk if the immune status is unknown. There was a brief fad for so-called "pink eye" vids, but fortunately, it appears to have passed. For one thing, it's such a misery most players wouldn't do it. However, I do know one female performer, very masochistic and into extreme BDSM of the kind I suspect they're thinking of with the moronic, new U.K. ban, who just loves taking it in the eyes. She requests it every time. But she's also very picky about her partners, which shows at least some awareness of risk. Still, it's another of those things I care to see as infrequently as possible.
The condom thing is never going to be resolved in porn to anyone's complete satisfaction. i make a point of only directing for companies that allow performers to choose them, but most don't and as I've said before, I'm not going to hold anybody down and put it on that person. On my sets, it's negotiated between the performers and I always have plenty of condoms of all types on hand if that's what they elect. If not, not. These are grown-ups and if a current test is enough for them, that's their call.
And I don't believe many performers come under pressure on sets to not use them. The game is more subtle than that but no less invidious. If the company or the director doesn't want condoms, he'll just ask a player before he hires him or her and if the answer is condoms only, he'll just promise to call back and never do it. Condom players work much less often than non-condom players and, at best, twenty percent of the scenes shot each year use them.
This would bother me more if I had more confidence in the effectiveness of condoms in porno sex, and would be intolerable if it weren't for comprehensive testing and external pops, but I still think no one should have to choose between condom use and greater employment opportunity. That's just plain wrong IMV and I've been saying that since 1993, which is one reason I'm so touchy on this issue.
As a result of having spoken up for condom use back then, I was effectively black-listed and didn't shoot another boy-girl scene for about four years. Then, when we had a serious outbreak in 1997 that resulted in the formation of AIM, I was brought back from Siberia and put on the board of the damned thing. Now I have plenty of work, but I'm regarded as a sellout by some for not pushing to make condom use mandatory, when I know that's just not on the table and if we try to put it there, we'll lose testing as a result.
it's just a no-win situation that's so much more complex than it looks from outside I can hardly describe it, though I will if anyone asks, go into the specifics.
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