From, well, you guessed it…“The porn industry is completely unregulated, as can be seen from the frequent outbreaks of HIV among porn actors that could have been prevented had the industry been required to test its “actors” or (gasp!) have them use condoms.”
Incorrect! Nine Deuce, meet AIM. Monthly. Tests happen Monthly. If not more often. Frequent outbreaks? 2004. The Industry voluntarily shut down for 2 months. In the last 10 years, an estimated 17 performers have contracted HIV. Compare that to, oh, the rest of the world populace. You’d think someone in an “academic” field would research their facts first…it would be logical after all. The Industry, you see, has moved to regulate itself, but no one would want to consider that…
“There’s one more thing I must say on this topic that should really bum your party out if you’re into porn. The porn industry is fucking lousy with producers who not only don’t work too hard to make sure their “actors” are of age, but who actively seek underage girls as they know it will increase the revenue they can extract from the kinds of assholes who are obsessed with virgins and young girls.”
Incorrect! Nine Deuce, meet Federal Law 2257. F-E-D-E-R-A-L…that means F-E-D-S.
No one, not even porn producers, wants to mess with the feds. Now, I know many anti-porn types are totally unfamiliar with 2257 and care not about consent when it suits their agenda, but pornographers, they sure as hell know 2257!
“I don’t suppose I’ll be shocking anyone when I say that rape and sexual assaults have risen across the board in tandem with the exponential increase in internet porn and in tandem with the ever-increasing violence and degradation in porn.”
Incorrect! See Penn & Teller, but to repeat what they pointed out (backed with stats even), in states where there is high usage of the internet (and porn consumption), the rape rate has decreased since 1980. In states with low net usage (and porn consumption), the rape rate has increased. Hummm.
“Men who use porn know that, deep down, they think it’s odd that the women they’re jerking off to have “chosen” to participate in pornography (more on that concept here). It is odd that a woman would choose to work in porn, would choose to use porn, or would choose to defend men’s and their own porn use to other women. It’s odd because women should instinctively sense, when confronted with the vast majority of pornographic images, that what they are seeing is degrading to the human spirit.”
Huh, really? Speak for yourself. I mean, that photo up there? I like it a lot. I think it’s artistic, I like my lines in it. Is it sexual? Yep. So what? I don’t think it’s degrading to anything…and while pretty tame, I feel the same about most of my work. And I usually watch porn…solo.
“women who want to go along with porn culture in pursuit of male acceptance are being forced to make do with having only a very small portion of their own sexuality acknowledged and having the vast majority of their sexual needs ignored”
Oh really? How universal of you. I tend to disagree.
“I’ll say it again: Pornography hurts people. It destroys relationships, prevents people from developing healthy sex lives, cripples the sense of empathy, and generally hinders people’s ability to form the kinds of connections that make life interesting and worthwhile.”
Another universal. Once again, speak for yourself. My relationship, sex life, empathy, and connections are okay, really. And my life is pretty interesting…in part, because of porn.
“When women see pornography, whether they’ve thought about it or not, they instinctively recognize that the women they are seeing are not being treated like human beings, that they do not want to be treated like the women in porn are treated, that the men they have sex with might be looking at them the way they must look at the women in pornography, and that their partners might not ever be satisfied with them unless they allow themselves to be treated thusly.”
Actually, its usually anti porn people who fail to treat me as human, but…once again, universal assumption in effect.
“I’m of the opinion that there is absolutely no defense possible for pornography consumption, and that pornography is a force that operates only to the detriment of everyone who comes into contact with it.”
Oh, well then…no wonder. However, zealotry? Not logical.
I will say however that porn is crap sex education for youth, yet, that was never it’s intended purpose.
Edit- Oh, and while I kind of agree with her post on the Bratz (hell, I had an Airforce Barbie FFS)...this statement?
"Honestly, the vast majority of these dolls look like porn “actors” on a day off."
Ummm, hardly.
22 comments:
I would really like to see Ren and/or anyone else who is really good at debunking these lies give a presentation at the National Women's Studies Association conference, especially those of you who are sex workers. I went again this year, and "Stop Porn Culture" was there. They did not give a presentation, but they had a booth with lots of handouts full of lies and a display with some really hot pictures of Britney Spears and some lady in a bikini as well as a picture of "Baby Bratz" dolls.
Hail Caesar!
Ren, you really are good at this. I second the notion that it would be devilish justice to see you and other women porn fans/ sex workers face off against the Gail Dines of the world. You and Jill made a formidable duo and William and Mary, seeing people like yourself (obviously intelligent, facts in order, articulate, funny. logical) in such a situation would be, simply put, incredible.
Oh, yeah. Baby Bratz dolls???
And they want to talk about how porn sexualizes children??
I'm surprised that they didn't break out the My Little Pony meme about how her upraised booty encourages "raunch culture" in impressionable young girls?
And, of course, none other than Gail Dines runs "Stop Porn Culture"...so typical.
Anthony
Oh, and I just can't leave this particular bit of rant alone:
“Men who use porn know that, deep down, they think it’s odd that the women they’re jerking off to have “chosen” to participate in pornography (more on that concept here). It is odd that a woman would choose to work in porn, would choose to use porn, or would choose to defend men’s and their own porn use to other women. It’s odd because women should instinctively sense, when confronted with the vast majority of pornographic images, that what they are seeing is degrading to the human spirit.”
What...that I would find it odd that a woman who likes sex a hell of a lot and who gets easily horny would want to perform sex with equally horny people (or do solo masturbation) that she already enjoys for free??? But what the hell do I know...I'm just a man with a working dick and a twisted left-wing opinion about liking women who make free choices with their bodies.
And about this "instinctly sense" that porn is "degrading to the human spirit": No, lady...there are far more debilitating shocks to the human spirit than an orgasm induced from watching other adults get it on. Seeing your friends get killed in an unpopular and illegal war is dispiriting. Hearing about how innocent people are detained, tortured and deported without a hint of a fair trial because they happened to have an Islamic-sounding name is definitely "debilitating" to the human spirit." Hell, I'd say that the Democrats caving in on FISA and telecom immunity is pretty damn debilitating to my spirits, if you happen to be a principled defender of the Fourth Amendment. Next to all that, getting all fired up because a man is jerking off to the image of a woman taking a consensual facial or a gangbang tends to be pretty far down the list of "debilitating".
Seriously...this woman needs a chill pill..or five.
Anthony
"Oh, yeah. Baby Bratz dolls???
And they want to talk about how porn sexualizes children??"
Yes, this. My guy *winces* any time he sees "Hannah Montana" anything. He thinks (and I agree, up to a point) that such things train people to be or to appeal to pedophiles... and I walk by things with those pictures on them *in the store* *constantly*.
If we are going for this War On Media thing, shouldn't we be going after media usually viewed in private by adults *last* rather than *first*? I don't get it.
Oh, please, Trin..don't get me started with Hannah Montana.....and poor, poor Miley Cyrus; may God and the Goddess forever bless her soul for having all the weight of Disney teen pop media dropped on her. As if being Daughter of "Achey Breaky Heart" Man (Billy Ray Cyrus) wasn't enough punishment...LOL
Anthony
"Oh, please, Trin..don't get me started with Hannah Montana"
Me neither. I don't know how much influence I believe that show actually has... but I will say she just looks... sad and wrong, to me.
Wow – like the saying goes, you're entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your facts. I guess Nine Deuce simply doesn't know the difference.
"Robert Jensen, who you should all get down with immediately"
.........
No.
No. No no no no no no no no *BSOD*
I'd much rather do this. Yeah, there was porn. Yeah, it was dorky. No, that didn't mean my boy OMG FORCED ME to uh... cane his legs?
Y'know, the more I read these people the more I realize that trying to overlap their talkings with my life and my sex... just yields a bunch of WTF.
I mean, am I the leering evil MAN who defiles innocence (that actually sounds kinda hot) and treats people like "toilet paper" (that, however, does not), or am I the POOR WOMAN used as a receptacle for um..
what...
yeah. BRAIN-O BREAK-O.
I do sometimes wish these people would at least *find* me, and *say something* to me. I mean, I'd hate it if they did, but it gets monotonous when people pretend you don't exist because they want to keep their concept of female as pure victim unsullied.
But then, there I go again, being human and all
OHSHIIIII---
I guess I'm one of the few people not in a moral panic over Miley Cyrus. The girl is a teenager now, so all this talk of "sexualization of children" is more than a tad pedantic. I also think those Annie Leibovitz pics that everybody was getting their undies in a bunch about were pretty tame, actually.
That's one very screwed up individual. Amongst other things in her posts about how to stop rape, she comes out as wanting to do away with the presumption of innocence until proven guilty for men accused of sex crimes. And then in the comments she claims any man who thinks differently about that is most likely a rapist.
Oh well, civil liberties, just not important for many of our modern feminists. Who needs habeas? Who needs innocent until proven guilty? Who needs rights to counsel? Who needs the Blackstone ratio: better that ten guilty go free than imprison one innocent?
Frankly, for me, very little else needs to be said about her philosophy. She's an authoritarian and would create a system just as bad as any dictators and rationalize why she is doing it.
That said, I take exception with "As if being Daughter of "Achey Breaky Heart" Man (Billy Ray Cyrus) wasn't enough punishment...LOL", from everything I can see, Miley Cyrus has a loving and caring father, and mother and kudos to all three of them. If my taste in haircuts or music doesn't include Achey Breaky Heart or mullets, I am still not going to say or do anything to take away from their personal relationship. Especially because what you say about living under the weight of Disney and our modern press has to be very perverting in its own right.
So I wish all three the very best and the best of success.
(I have two daughters, and no duh, it seems the easiest game for others is to criticize parents for their failings.)
Ren, amazingness.
All I really have to add is you're right on about 2257. I swear, I needed more proof of identity going on a porn shoot (two forms of government ID I believe), than walking in an airport. And that was just who I was, not the rest of it either.
It’s odd because women should instinctively sense, when confronted with the vast majority of pornographic images, that what they are seeing is degrading to the human spirit.
so, women have some special superpower of woman-sense, which tingles at the presence of degraded human spirits?
and if you don't have this superpower, does that mean you're not a woman? not enough of a woman? not a "real" woman?
hey, didn't the Angel In The House thing go out with hoopskirts and petticoats? wasn't the idea of female moral "superiority" one of the ideas that First Wave feminists struggled against?
and why should I instinctively sense something that might not be there?
I hate to repeat myself - but the most humiliating photograph of me ever taken? I was fully clothed, in a respectable, even modest manner, sitting next to a man who tried to kill me. I wasn't fucking anyone, sucking anyone, or whatever the hell ND's worst porno nightmare might be. I was just sitting next to someone, pretending to be happy and safe.
you don't have to take your clothes off to be degraded in the human spirit. nor does every "dirty" picture depict degraded human spirits.
if you replace the words 'people', 'everyone' and any other plural anonymous reference with 'me' and 'i' in all of her writing, you pretty much get the real deal. a sad diatribe of personal grievances totally unsupported by fact. it's a classic case of an inability to deal with one's own problems projected as a cause for the betterment of humanity.
Jerry--
Ah, yes, Deuce's Law. Y'know, I am all for stopping rape, and I do think it's shitty that a mere 6% of rapes end in conviction for the rapist. But I don't believe in castrating people, and it completely turned me off when in the comments she repeatedly stated that women were less violent than men. Gender essentialism sucks no matter who's using it.
It’s odd because women should instinctively sense, when confronted with the vast majority of pornographic images, that what they are seeing is degrading to the human spirit.
Ditto on what antip said about this. It just seems so hypocritical, I guess, that a lot of the rhetoric here is couched in terms of women's mystic specialness and other forms of gender essentialism.
Well, I'll join the chorus of bravos here but with a slight departure...
There was an Air Force Barbie?! Why didn't I get one of those? *pouts*
And...Anthony:
I'm surprised that they didn't break out the My Little Pony meme about how her upraised booty encourages "raunch culture" in impressionable young girls?
I saw "raunch" totally reinterpreted it as "ranch" culture and then said out loud, "Crap, now the rad fems are ripping on ranchers?!?" Gotta get those reading lessons.
And, are you serious about that meme? My goodness, I'm so sheltered from those folks. I thought I had read most of their silliness but...
Ren, have you been fitted for you laurel wreath yet? Because as G.E.R. you totally need one. Can't take you seriously without it.
Jerry...no offense intended to Billy Ray or Miley Cyrus in my snark about them: I was being fercicious there. I'm sure that BRC is a kind, loving father and a decent man; I'm just not down with his brand of music.
Anthony
aspasia: not a meme, but a particularly silly article in the usually not nearly this silly Bitch magazine, brilliantly fisked here.
“I’ll say it again: Pornography hurts people. It destroys relationships, prevents people from developing healthy sex lives, cripples the sense of empathy, and generally hinders people’s ability to form the kinds of connections that make life interesting and worthwhile.”
That shit just makes me laugh. I've yet to see an anti-porn anyone make a connection between porn and these things, and yet they all claim it's true! I don't get it.
belledame: sometimes, I just can't tell what is actually a meme because the feminists we usually talk about tend to seriously grab hold of the most innocuous things and turn it into a symbol of male-dominance. So I figured MLP, not that far out of the ballpark. Kim's article is hilarious. Thanks for the link!
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