And I will preface this by saying I am glad to see people I normally agree with about nothing telling this poster to STFU.
Because this person does need to be told WTF?STFU! Loudly and repeatedly.
She doesn't think porn stars should be allowed to have children...
I also note, from a brief glance, this woman is currently almost unemployed...maybe she should not be allowed to have children then, eh? I mean, it would appear that oh, Jenna Jameson is in a far better financial place and such to support her children. (Yes, Jenna is preggers).
But anyway...allowed? ALLOWED to have children? Women in porn should not be fucking allowed to have children because the poor little dears will face so much strife, because someone might call mommy a whore or pick on them? I wonder if she has any idea how many porn performers have children. As if, you know, people in porn don't think about this shit before having kids anyway, but come on! I wonder if she thinks gay folk should be able to have children, or poor folk, or disabled folk, or non-porn star women who have had...colorful...sexual pasts. OH YEAH, and where the FUCK does anyone get off telling any person they should NOT be ALLOWED to have children...oh wait, that shit happened to all kinds of folks...in WWII in Europe, in China currently, and amid minoritiy communities in the US...fine predicent there, eh? And gee, you think maybe a little bit of the goddamn whorephobia that makes people like this fine specimen assume porn stars can't be good parents isn't propogated by her own fucked up attitude?
For Fuck Sake, What the HELL is wrong with people????
Here's the deal...if one of your parents was in the army, little Johnny at school might call them a baby-killer...does that mean people in the military should not have kids? If one of 'em works for a big corporation, they might get called a defiler of the earth...no kids for them either? One might be a cop, and get called a racist, or a thug...no kids for them? One might be a defense attorney, and they might take shit for defending criminals...no kids for them? Or is it just porn stars? Just female porn stars even? I mean, can Ron Jermey have kids? Is the right to breed out there for other people, but not those women who fuck on film?
With attitudes like that, I hope to god she never breeds. Oh, and she doesn't like the word "whore", but if she's not engaging in good old fashioned slut shaming/whorephobia, then this whore has never fucking seen it.
And you know what, I am pretty sure Jenna and Belladonna and all those other porn stars out there with kids will do just fine...no thanks to women like this with attitudes like these.
Holy shit, I think I've actually now read something that truly disgusts me...absolutely, without question, disgusts me.
Monday, October 06, 2008
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23 comments:
I can't even begin to understand the rationale behind this kind of hatred. Goddess knows I wish there was something I could actually do to stop people from treating each other like shit.
She's disgusting, utterly disgusting. I mean, who the fuck does she think she is for a start?
Just copying and pasting the comment I posted at Caroline's...
Making a determination over who should or should not be allowed to have children? HELLO??!! That is some scary shit. To see a feminist saying those words really chills me. I guess all that reproductive justice stuff was just for laughs.
and the nice little thing there in the comments, about jamesons husband/pimp? thats nice too...
porn women shouldn't be allowed to have kids, NOR apparently can they have simple PARTNERS either...
I took a second and read through the comments and then linked to some of their blogs.
Not.Going.To.Go.There.
Scary is not the word for it.
Outis
Isn't this the same as an argument that homophobes use against same sex couples raising children? As if bigotry from others matters more than children having loving parents.
Does she even see porn performers as fellow human beings?
It's depressing to see that some people actually agreed with her.
Depressing, very depressing that she sees fit to nominate herself as a moral authority on who and who does not have the right to reproduce.
on a related note:
http://jezebel.com/5059772/tyra-tries-to-condescend-professional-dominatrix-into-submission?autoplay=true
(Tyra Banks getting upset that a pro-domme is a mother)
-penny
My favorite part: "*Note: I hate using the word "whore" when describing women..."
...But I'm gonna go ahead and use it anyway! What a disgusting human being. I'm more disturbed that Jenna finds such an arrogant, shit-talker like Tito Ortiz attractive than the fact that she's having (holy crap!) twins.
Ugh. Do NOT get me started on Tito Ortiz. Hey lady, how about, instead of having the gall to try and regulate which women can have babies due to their sexual proclivities, you work towards a society that won't JUDGE women for their sexuality. Start with yourself. Just a thought.
I will tackle this later. I don't want to now because I don't have the time right now to give it the SERIOUS calling out it deserves.
But the people in that particular lj comm tend to be quite vicious, to the point where they call one ANOTHER out sometimes. It's surreal. (And toxic.)
T&D:
such a load of shit...a huge, steaming one.
Well, so much for my pledge to cut back on blogging. Thank god I don't smoke!
But this...THIS ... this shall not pass. No it cannot. I don't know who this ... person ... is or how she came to your attention, and I doubt she wields much influence in the world. But unfortunately, I suspect she utters aloud the unspoken bigotry of many, many others. That is what must be addressed. She's insignificant, but her toxic opinions must be challenged.
First they must be challenged in the specific as regards Jenna Jameson. Why? Because Jenna and I have been friends since she was 19 and while I know she fronts a pretty tough public persona, she's really quite sensitive to exactly this sort of personal viciousness, of which she's had to deal with more than her fair share.
So, Jenna as potential mother? Solid qualifications. Unlike so many children in this world, hers will always know they're wanted. Jenna has desired motherhood far more ardently than any of her accomplishments in life and will love those kids with the ferocity of will that is one of her signature characteristics. Kids can deal with a lot of trouble growing up pretty handily if they're secure in the awareness of parental love.
Jenna is also smart and worldly. Her children will have the benefit of her experience in life and of her intelligence and insight. She was extremely sharp and observant when I met her and has only gotten more so over the years, as her ambitions and inner conflicts have been tempered in the forge of a very public, and often extremely difficult life and career. Whatever problems her children may face, you can bet she'll see those problems coming and step up to them the same way she's stepped up to dealing with every other hardship this world has thrown at her.
As for how she'll handle it when the inevitable day comes upon which some fool hassles them over their mother's former profession, well, all I can say about that is some fool will be lucky if Tito gets to him before Jenna does. She has a surprisingly sweet and tender side but man, you don't want to see the other one.
Moreover, Jenna's kids will start life with material advantages. They will want for nothing that wealth can provide, including the best schools, the confidence that comes with economic security, the opportunities to travel, the exposure to every kind of cultural diversity, the knowledge that any kind of help they might ever need is ready to hand, the entre into whatever life courses they may choose that only the resources Jenna worked so hard to assemble can provide, in short, everything she built through a struggle no one who didn't witness it up close can truly imagine. All that will be theirs, along with the awareness that their mother did all that primarily for them.
Let's not forget that this pregnancy - and i pray it goes smoothly - was achieved with great difficulty after many previous attempts. Is Jenna qualified to be a mother? Fuck yeah. She put herself through hell for the chance. That should weigh heavily in any sound judgment of her fitness.
But that brings us round to the much larger question of who is qualified to judge and on what basis. How dare anyone suggest that because of a woman's occupation she should not be ALLOWED to have children.
This ... individual ... didn't couch her comments in the form of advice, or in the context of raising a questions, however rude and inappropriate, of what the possible consequences of a porn performer having children might be.
Oh no, she went straight to her proposed "solution." Porn performers should be ... what - legally forbidden to procreate? Physically sterilized by court order? Fuck it. Why not just kill them to make sure they can't reproduce by some freak accident? Godwin's Law be damned, that's straight Nazi eugenics. It's nauseating and the self-righteousness with which it's offered up makes it all the more so. If anyone should have cause for shame here, it's not Jenna or Jenna's children, it's anyone capable of committing such vile ideas to words.
The fact of the matter is that most sex workers, including porn performers, do have children. And here's a big surprise for those who think they somehow live in a better class of society than ours: those kids seem to turn out just about as well as any other kids. Some have tough issues to work through. Some get a fairly easy ride in life. But most understand that whatever mommy does for a living, she does so they will have food, shelter and the hope of some kind of a good future.
Porn has now been around long enough for a goodly number of porn performers' kids to have grown up, and I find them to be neither more nor less troubled as any other group of young adults I know. There is no evidence at all to suggest that their maternal parents' occupations significantly handicapped their prospects on this planet.
Among the other things betrayed by this vile blood-libel against all of us - not just porn performers but their spouses as well - is an utter and complete ignorance of what our lives are really like. Does this ... person ... think that porn performers live lives of wild debauchery that would endanger their children? Off the job, most of them are shockingly normal and in many ways surprisingly conventional. They don't bring their kids to work and they don't bring their work home to their kids. Any suggestion to the contrary is simply too repugnant to discuss.
Well, I guess I've made myself pretty clear on this one. But before I go, I have to say in all honesty that while the ... person ... who posted this sickening slam did get a few amens from other commenters, most of what I read on the comment thread was harshly critical of what she had to say. And in all fairness, some of the most outspoken critics identified as anti-porn. It would appear that at least some anti-porn feminists still understand that reproductive justice might be just a tad bit more important than even their holy crusade against the evil of porn. So two cheers for them.
Now, if they would only go the next step of recognizing sex workers of all types as fully human, they might be quite surprised at how many other concerns they have in common with those they spend so much time denouncing.
Okay, that's as much energy as I can expend on this particular outrage. There are too many like it to beat them all down and I'll just let this one sink under the weight of it's own hideousness. other than cross-posting my views on it at the BPPA.
Ernest
It is appalling, and so fundamentally antithetical to what we've always understood feminism to be about.
hugo- its appalling period...the certain people should not breed isn't just anti-feminist, it's anti-human Nazi-esque shit.
(forgive me for not holding back)
As if the post itself wasn't terrible enough, i read some of the comments. I almost don't have the words to express the rage I felt while reading this. How dare anyone decide that they have the right to say who should and should not become a mother? Seriously that kind of reasoning has lead to the sterilization of women and it always the marginalized groups.
She goes on about how the poor kids will be effected without realizing that if they are it will be because of people like her who think that they have the right to slut shame women. That's right if we could just acknowledge that fucking is something everyone does any and just move on this shit would not be an issue/
Oh good grief, another fascist "feminist" telling women what they are and are not "allowed" to do. Will blog about this later. xx
This has to be one of the most fucked-up things I've read on the internet in a long time. Fucked-up, but not surprising. This is the prejudice of thousands, if not millions, of people being aired out over there.
Jesus fucking christ....**shakes head in disbelief**.
Me? I'm happy for any woman who is pregnant when she wants to be, regardless of her career.
Where the fuck does the girl get off? Even if there had been some study saying that the majority of porn stars ended up being horrible parents--well, maybe Jenna would break that trend. One can never know. And as far as I know, there has been no such study, so she is talking out of her ass.
I'm more worried about the crazy anti-choicers having children than I am the sex workers/porn performers--sex workers aren't terrorists, after all.
If you are pro choice, that also includes the right to have children, as well as the right to not have children.
As for whether or not porn/ex porn stars should be parents, check out Asia Carrera's awesome blog:
http://www.asiasbulletin.com/
She mostly posts about her adventures in widowed motherhood. If you go back far enough you can even read about how she gave birth to her son all alone. She's a genius and she's a great mommy!!
Ernest: I want to say something about your brilliant comment, but all I really have to say is "what you said."
I posted about this too, here:
http://trinityva.livejournal.com/896069.html
So fucking horrific. :(
Besides that, someone should tell that idiot that Tito Ortiz only met Jenna Jameson AFTER she officially retired from doing porn, which means that he wasn't even there when she was even doing those videos. He is no more her "pimp" than I am Ren's.
Not to mention that I know many women who do porn who actually ARE mothers raising children....and most of them are pretty damn normal...far more normal than a lot of children born to "civilians". I'd much rather trust a child to Jenna Jameson than I ever would some of these so-called "radicalfeminists".
When you can't distinguish the "feminists" from the neo-Nazis, it's time to say goodbye to that form of "feminism". This is fascism on crack, mixed with Crystal Meth.
Anthony
I wanted to commentthere, but since it was restricted to community members only, I wasn't allowed. And I don't really want to join that community.
My reaction was this:
I've heard those exact sentiments here in Sweden, only in a different context. The context here was whether adoption should be at all possible for same-gender couples, and the people opposing it used the same arguments, but with "whore" replaced with "gay".
The argument is no less appalling in this context.
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